Yokodama is BACK!

[Starcrossed]

I'm sure a lot of the people who read this forum don't remember yokodama compared with fuidama, but I do.

Thieves used to be able to sneak/trick from any angle all the time by using an L-Shaped fighting formation. This meant NO trick partner required, all sneak/trick/ws were done directly on the main tank. This made it literally impossible to pull the monster off a paladin tank. That's what people meant when they called thieves hate controls. What thieves are currently are medium damage dealers who require special fighting formation to function, and they can control hate to some degree.

Now it's back, however only every 5 minutes with hide. This doesn't mean we can function without a trick partner, but it does mean we become better hate controllers than those damnable drk/thief after level 60.

Thank god Was starting to feel second class in my own job.


Streak

[navpops]

dont think every 5 mins is going to make them better then a DRK/THF imo, but yeah, its still helpful and neat

[guyincorporated]

Plus most of the monsters we XP against aren't fooled by Hide...

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by guyincorporated
Plus most of the monsters we XP against aren't fooled by Hide...

Eh..I dont see the point every 5 minutes, inless it was in a 2 man pt.

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by John Doe III
Eh..I dont see the point every 5 minutes, inless it was in a 2 man pt.

Agreed, the odds of only have 1 melee partner while also fighting against gobbos or yagyudos is pretty slim. The Hide trick won't come up in parties much.

But in Ballista or other PvP....

.....oh baby....

[Ljarin]

Originally posted by guyincorporated
Plus most of the monsters we XP against aren't fooled by Hide...

I don't think that will matter. You won't have aggro in the first place so you won't be using Hide to clear aggro. You will just use hide so when you use Sneak Attack right after it will give you a full Sneak Attack damage hit on your next attack.

As to the point of it, well Hide isn't really any use currently in exp pt's, at least you get a use for it every 5 minutes post-patch - can't really complain ^^

[guyincorporated]

I think you're missing my point. Even when I don't have hate, if I'm fighting a crab, worm, bat, fly, crawler, scorpion, orc, quadav,funguar or mandragora, I can not Hide from it, even if it isn't currently beating on me. (Only 2 xp mobs I can think of that I've fought since I was soloing and which are sight-detecting only were goblins and beetles...) I'd have to save the Hide trick for the first hit of the fight, which I always have the trick partner assisting me with anyways, plus I wouldn't be able to do it if I were pulling...

I really am stoked that they're putting this in. Any opportunity to increase my thief's bag of tricks is fine by me, I'm just saying we shouldn't be celebrating the return of Yokodama until we digest the facts for a moment.

[yuukei]

guyincorporated, what Ljarin is trying to say is that he believes that it won't matter if hide works on a mob or not. They think that Hide is used only to activate Yokodama ability, and is independent of the monster's ability to detect you or not.

In short, they're trying to say that it doesn't matter if hide works on the monster. Hide is only used to activate the yokodama effect.

[Macht]

Originally posted by yuukei
guyincorporated, what Ljarin is trying to say is that he believes that it won't matter if hide works on a mob or not. They think that Hide is used only to activate Yokodama ability, and is independent of the monster's ability to detect you or not.

In short, they're trying to say that it doesn't matter if hide works on the monster. Hide is only used to activate the yokodama effect.

That is assuming that the SA ability used with hide will not be effected by the monster's ability to detect you or not. If it is then celebrating the yokodama's return was to soon.

[Zaptruder]

Well, look at it this way Macht;

if it was the case of just been undetected that allowed SA from any direction to be activated, then a whm could cast invisible on the thief for the same effect... or sneak.

That ISN'T the case... and it would be foolish to do so.

So it really IS hide allowing SA to be active from any direction, rather than the lack of detection by the mob.

[Zaptruder]

Well, look at it this way Macht;

if it was the case of just been undetected that allowed SA from any direction to be activated, then a whm could cast invisible on the thief for the same effect... or sneak.

That ISN'T the case... and it would be foolish to do so.

So it really IS hide allowing SA to be active from any direction, rather than the lack of detection by the mob.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Zaptruder
Well, look at it this way Macht;

if it was the case of just been undetected that allowed SA from any direction to be activated, then a whm could cast invisible on the thief for the same effect... or sneak.

That ISN'T the case... and it would be foolish to do so.

So it really IS hide allowing SA to be active from any direction, rather than the lack of detection by the mob.

It's obvious that Hide works different then Invis. So it has different variants that determines how it works. So it is still a possibility that it may go by the mob's ability to detect you as well. If hide and invis worked exactly the same then it could be determined they use the same variant, by the same token there is nothing saying that they don't use the same variant just the values are different.

In either case this boils down to the programers design and ultimatly will lead to what the designers intent for it was. So weather Yokodama is possible again or not, it's continued pressence is still going to be controlled by the designers.

[Alontier]

You can now land a Sneak Attack succesfully from any direction after a successfull Hide.

The restrictions for Trick Attack ( mob < tank < thf) is still there.

So it isn't exactly Yokodama as you still have to stand behind your trick partner.

[Fuuko]

You can do Fuidama/Yokodama (whatever you want to call it) behind the main tank (facing the mob, behind the main tank), might not be usefull in exp PTs (because of the 5 min timer), but it seems VERY usefull in HNM....

[Mithrankittycat]

The requirement for position in trick attack wasn't nerfed like sneak attack. You can go into oldschool yokodama position if you really want to and it'll work. There's no need to, though. X3

Some monsters will eliminate your hide even if you don't have the top hate. Aspido... (king adamantoise) prevented me from using hide when I had some hate but not the most hate. Charybdis didn't prevent my hide from working, even though I had some hate from attacking it but not the most hate.