Early on as a thief, daggers or swords?

[Maxus]

I gotta say that with a sword, I was missing a whole lot more.
Once I started kickin' up with a dagger, I've enjoyed it a lot more.

I own a Brass Xiphos that deals 12 dmg and a Dagger that deals out 7 dmg of pain.

Daggers can yield two average hits, a better hit % and 10 possible TP points in the amount of time it takes a sword to hit big once, with a lower hit % and 6 possible TP.

I find the daggers weapon skills being more useful to me than the swords. Wasp Sting can poison an enemy for a while if you have high TP and Gust Blast is a nice lil' damage dealer on the side. True, Fast Blade can stack with Sneak Attack....but that's about the only thing I can think of with a sword. Burning Blade isn't really useful to me.

I don't know about you...but my dagger is kicking some ass right now.

Although I will continue to equally level both up.....

On a side note, any other thieves struggling with bow and arrows? I'm a lvl 21 in archery but I miss so much, I'm thinking of just ditching the archery scene.

BTW, FIRST POST!

[John Doe III]

Use grapples..(h2h)

[The Heretic]

Originally posted by John Doe III
Use grapples..(h2h)

Id like to add, subbing monk also aids to this methods effectiveness.

[Mistress Kimba]

Before level 33, you should be using daggers just to keep your skill up. All other times you will want H2H and Swords in your hand.

Though your dagger may seem more effective, you will do more damage with the sword or h2h from renkei damage. Typically, you will be doing a Sneak Attack -> Fast Blade or Combo as the 2nd person in the chain. Wasp Sting can be used with SA, but its useless. The reason for doing this is that your Burst damage is amplified with Sneak Attack just as Fast Blade or Combo is. You should be doing well over 100 damage on your weapon skill + sneak attack after 20 and your burst damage is typically half your weapon skill damage (depends alot on the damage dealt from the first weapon skill you chained on).

equipping daggers lends no ability to Sneak Attack in a skillchain with until you hit 33 and get Viper Bite.

In order to make the most out of your thief and impress the people you party with setup a renkei with your party members so you can sneak attack fast blade/combo 2nd or 3rd.

Thiefs arent supposed to go first in renkei either so make sure you follow the typical skill chains below:

Polearm user in pt:
Double Thrust > (Sneak Attack) Fast Blade
Raiden (Thunder) Thrust > (Sneak Attack) Fast Blade

Great Katana user in pt:
Tachi: Enpi > (Sneak Attack) Fast Blade

Bow user in pt:
Flaming Arrow > (Sneak Attack) Fast Blade or Combo

Sword user in pt:
Red Lotus (Burning) Blade > Combo

Those are the main 4 you will probably chain on. There are other countless possibilities, but those allow for the level 2 Skill chains which are the most devastating when used with Thief's Sneak Attacked Skillchain.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Mistress Kimba
Sword user in pt:
Red Lotus (Burning) Blade > Combo

This would probably be the one you use the most. And thank you Heretic for adding that.

[Valcarde]

Heh, gotta love how when someone asks for an opinion between TWO OPTIONS, some smartass will always throw in a third option.

He was asking between DAGGER and SWORD.

IN this case, I would say sword until about 33 seems to be the general consensus.

[Roldarin]

Its not being smartass. I think its useful to also have H2H leveled up for a thief. The first time I was taught to use Sneak Attack with a weapon skill was with Combo.

Having a H2H weapon is useful into your 20s for those weapon chains that don't work with Fast Blade. For example: with a monk. Shoulder Tackle > Combo works.

[PhoR]

Re: Early on as a thief, daggers or swords?

Originally posted by Maxus
Daggers can yield two average hits, a better hit % and 10 possible TP points in the amount of time it takes a sword to hit big once, with a lower hit % and 6 possible TP.

what does that even mean?
you make it sound like you're swinging twice with a dagger for every once with a sword, which isn't even close to being true.

Every class misses alot early on.. I personally didn't notice a hit percentage difference between sword and dagger that early. If you are noticing one, then your sword skill is obviously much lower than your dagger skill. Because your skill with the weap is what affects your hit percentage, and at low level, the difference between sword and dagger skillcaps is NILL.

Just listen to what the thousand other experienced thf's are telling you and use sword or grapples (dagger just until you cap your skill) because they are just better. plain and simple.




also as far as bow is concerned, even rangers will miss a ton at low levels. It's just how archery is. just stick with it and it will get better. (ps. you can level archery much more easily if you have rng sub at 5 for the sharpshot ability. since you can only skill up when you hit, sharpshot allows you to skill up much more quickly.)

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Valcarde
Heh, gotta love how when someone asks for an opinion between TWO OPTIONS, some smartass will always throw in a third option.

He was asking between DAGGER and SWORD.

IN this case, I would say sword until about 33 seems to be the general consensus.

You stupid moron. You must not really be into THF or must have not been paying attention early levels. Grapples are like #1 to use with THF lower level till about Qufim then sword. Easiest to renkei with low level is combo.

[Pandar]

Sword would be better at lower lvls before lvl 33 but also try to level up dagger every once in awhile so you won't have to work as hard later on.

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by John Doe III


You stupid moron. You must not really be into THF or must have not been paying attention early levels. Grapples are like #1 to use with THF lower level till about Qufim then sword. Easiest to renkei with low level is combo.

Jeez, don't you have another board to troll on? H2H is an ok alternative, but I'll see 10 thieves using swords for each one using H2H. The overwhelming consensus for thieves is to use swords to 33, but keep H2H and dagger leveled *just in case*.

[Valcarde]

Actually, I am 'into' thief, I happen to enjoy the job, but just like to point out he wanted opinion between 'Dagger' and 'Sword'.

Personally, I can't stand Hand to Hand weapons. Especially since the consensus seems to be, you -must- sub a certain way to use them. I prefer swords and daggers.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by guyincorporated


Jeez, don't you have another board to troll on? H2H is an ok alternative, but I'll see 10 thieves using swords for each one using H2H. The overwhelming consensus for thieves is to use swords to 33, but keep H2H and dagger leveled *just in case*.

No I dont ^_^ and i'm not trolling you ass. How do you know that those 10 thieves aren't using the best weapon at their level? I think Valc's smartass comment fits you. Grapples are best lower level with monk sub job to help the delay using them. Then at Qufim use one hand sword, also can use grapples becuase THEY ARE EASY TO RENKEI WITH. Just keep them leveled.....you had to say something didn't you? I'm not saying you HAVE to use them, they are just better for those levels.

[ichnob]

Either way, you should be using a dagger at times in a group as well. It's better if you level up thief as a later job, so you have the benefits of a subjob first.

If you leveled up monk first, use grapples. Combo is the first WS you get to use Sneak Attack with. As to my viewings of it, they stack nicely.

Since for some reason SE decided to give warriors swords when they started out, use swords if you leveled up warrior first and actually used a sword for a few levels. Fast Blade is the first WS you get to use Sneak Attack with. Not as powerful compared to a Sneak Attack + Combo, but effective nonetheless.

If you started as thief, or just wanted to be pure dagger, go ahead and use it. Wasp Sting stacks poorly with Sneak Attack. You get a minimal damage multiplier (might not even notice it). You get Shadowstitch at a later level (20ish) which also stacks with Sneak Attack. It stacks better than Wasp Sting, I'll say that. Those are your main Sneak Attack options when using your dagger to level it up before you get Viper Bite.

[guyincorporated]

My point, John Doe, is that Valcarde posted a completely factual, helpful, non-opinionated statement, and your rebuttal?

"You stupid moron."

Your petty, confrontational tone just wears thin after a while. Note that the question had nothing to do with H2H weapons, and your claim that they are inherently superior at low levels (Even with a monk sub - assuming they have a sub) is specious at best.