Treasure Hunter

[Lily]

Originally posted by Alexander
Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I just wanted to mention that since day of week and moon phase affect drop rates as well, the information is interesting, but not statistically useful unless all farming took place at the same place in the Vana'diel cycle.

Plus also I think lvl difference has an effect too. The closer you are to the mob's lvl the better the drops seem to be. When you're lvling low jobs again, the sheer amount of items that drops is huge. Go back to those mobs at 75, and it will take you aaaages to get the same amount of items, Treasure Hunter or no. :\

[Gman]

Originally posted by Lily
Plus also I think lvl difference has an effect too. The closer you are to the mob's lvl the better the drops seem to be. When you're lvling low jobs again, the sheer amount of items that drops is huge. Go back to those mobs at 75, and it will take you aaaages to get the same amount of items, Treasure Hunter or no. :\

Agree. As a 57 BST/WHM killing crawler hunters in Nest, I get average 1 shell and 3 claws per kill. These area VT and I am by myself when I kill. Every 2 kills I will get a Kindred or Beaseman seal. Maybe 1/5 kills I will get a coffer key, but I dont have enough kills to say this is not fluke.

As a BST/THF, if I go and kill Tulwar Scorpions in West Altep, or even Easy Prey Mushussus in CN, I get MAYBE 1 drop per mob. Not even close to the rate I get from the VT Crawler Hunters. They are all the same type of mob, so I'm sure 1 isnt designed to drop more than the other.

Bottom line, THF or no THF, exp mobs have better drops than weaker ones.

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by Gman
Agree. As a 57 BST/WHM killing crawler hunters in Nest, I get average 1 shell and 3 claws per kill. These area VT and I am by myself when I kill. Every 2 kills I will get a Kindred or Beaseman seal. Maybe 1/5 kills I will get a coffer key, but I dont have enough kills to say this is not fluke.

As a BST/THF, if I go and kill Tulwar Scorpions in West Altep, or even Easy Prey Mushussus in CN, I get MAYBE 1 drop per mob. Not even close to the rate I get from the VT Crawler Hunters. They are all the same type of mob, so I'm sure 1 isnt designed to drop more than the other.

Bottom line, THF or no THF, exp mobs have better drops than weaker ones.

Ugh, I have NEVER seen evidence of this in my playing. This rumor is such a urban legend, it drives me crazy. It comes from 3 things:
1. Harder mobs drop more items. So yes, you generally xp against harder stuff that you farm up, so it seems like more items drop.
2. XP mobs also drop seals. 'oooh, more items, xp mobs really are richer!!'
3. XP mobs also drop crystals. 'woah, this crawler dropped 5 crystals, a seal and a thread!! That's SEVEN TIMES better than the ones in saruta!'

and maybe, 4. I've seen gm screenshot convos where they say more people in your party means more people increasing the liklihood of an item appearing. Personally, I find myself skeptical of that, but it has more proof going for it than "it is sooooo obvious!"

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Lily
Plus also I think lvl difference has an effect too. The closer you are to the mob's lvl the better the drops seem to be. When you're lvling low jobs again, the sheer amount of items that drops is huge. Go back to those mobs at 75, and it will take you aaaages to get the same amount of items, Treasure Hunter or no. :\

/sigh

Some rumors just refuse to die.

For the moment, we'll set aside the fact that Squenix already specifically stated that player level does not affect drop rate.

I'll just cut-and-paste a test I did:

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
I went into E.Sarutabaruta and killed 100 EP-T mobs from level 7-10 as a WAR/RNG.

Total results as WAR:

14 - a wind crystal
18 - an earth crystal
4 - a water crystal
3 - a beastmen's seal
6 - a Yagudo feather
2 - a rabbit hide
2 - a chunk of rock salt
6 - a cornette
6 - a beehive chip
1 - a handful of pugil scales
1 - a scroll of Blind
3 - a spool of silk thread
3 - a pot of honey
1 - an insect wing
1 - a crawler calculus

Of course, you must subtract crystals and beastmen seals out of the final total, as those cannot drop from TWTBW mobs.

Total drops (less crystals and seals) - 32

Next, I went into Saruta as a 58RNG/WAR and killed 100 mobs (all with Loxley Bow).

Total results as RNG:

4 - a rabbit hide
1 - a muddy bar tab
2 - a bird egg
13 - a Yagudo feather
4 - a Yagudo bead necklace
4 - a beehive chip
2 - a cornette
2 - a scroll of Barsleep
3 - a spool of silk thread
3 - a pot of honey
1 - a beastcoin
2 - a bird feather
1 - a fastwater fishing rod
2 - a crawler calculus

Total drops - 44

---

Just some notes on the above:
I absentmindedly traded away my Muddy Bar Tab right before I went out with RNG (I generally try to keep garbage Rare items on me so I don't have to keep dropping them). To be perfectly fair, you should subtract 1 from RNG total.

I own a Lucky Egg, and it was in my inventory (on my person) for the entire duration of both tests, for what it's worth.

While I was RNG, I did end up with a lot more Yagudo feathers; I didn't really care what I was killing as RNG, so I just shot whatever moved. However, even if you subtract ALL the Yagudo feathers, the comparison is still extremely close.

And keep in mind that we are looking for a data sample that is so indisputable that we can confidently say that Squenix is lying or wrong. There is simply no way that you can reach that conclusion with this data, and even if the results were flipped, I think that the results are close enough to chalk up to dumb luck.

Now before you say, "This test isn't large enough to prove anything!", let me point out that I have yet to see a single controlled test showing that drop rate is affected by level. In other words, every single time someone makes some statement about exp mobs giving better drops, they follow it up with some anecdote.

anecdotes != scientific evidence

And I would think that in order to be able to say that Squenix was lying or wrong when they said that drop rate isn't affected by level, you better have some pretty strong evidence, and a LOT of it. Evidence strong enough to directly contradict the makers of the game (for the record, I wouldn't consider my test anywhere close to meeting that standard).

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, BTW:

I did a little bit of Tabar Beak farming myself, with TH2 + Lucky Egg. I got 58 drops from 71 kills, which (compared to the samples in the original Tabar Beak test) is a drop ratio of 1.62. Not too shabby.

[Gman]

Went to CN last night. Maybe the crawler hunters just have a really good drop rate.. who knows. Me and my BST duo partner were killing Knight Crawlers and Crawler Hunters. My inventory was full after about 4 Crawler hunters with shells and claws. Knight Crawlers barely dropped anything. I think we got 3 silk thread and a few earth crystals, and a coffer key in 15-20 kills. I guess this proves exp mobs dont necessarily have better drop rates, rather certain types of mobs drop more items than others.

Still, it is weird that the average was still 2 claws and 1 shell for each CH, when if you kill lesser level scorps, you dont get that kind of loot from each kill.

I'm not even counting crystals and seals, im talking just material drops. Disagree with me if you want, but I've killed enough of these to notice a pattern. Mushussus and tulwars arent twtbw to me yet, so they should still drop seals and crystals too, as I'm only level 57. I guess I'll just conclude that CH's have better drop rate. Maybe a lvl 75 that kills them would have same drop rate as me.

[Fire]

The Scorps in CN drop 2claws and 2shells every kill for me when i had th2 onry. I do mean every kill. I farmed them when I level'd bonecrafting through scorp arrowhead+rings. Not once did they drop any less.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Alexander
Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I just wanted to mention that since day of week and moon phase affect drop rates as well, the information is interesting, but not statistically useful unless all farming took place at the same place in the Vana'diel cycle.

Well since it was ressurected there is just one thing I do have to say. Moon Phase I have not seen effect my drop rate at all, I do find it odd though that I've gotten a noticibly larger amount of drops on Earth and Light day then I have any other day however.

That has been very consistent for me when I was hunting Goobbues every time it was Light or Earth day I would get a significantly larger quantity of either Moss or Cuttings. How often the drops occured changed also, on any other day it would take around 7-10 Goobbues for 1 item dropped. On those two specific days I always got a drop after 2-5 Goobbues.

I haven't tried this with TH to see how it is now though, I'll have to give it a run sometime and see how significant TH realy is. As for level base I agree that is not considered, in Lineage II it does seem to be considered in it quite heavily even had it down to a mathmatic chance you'd have at certain levels to get that drop from each specific monster.

On here though there is another circumstance that I've noticed effect the drop that being party. When I use to hunt the Rams they always and it was almost religious would give me no more then 12 Horns, and I'm sure everyone here knows how often the Rams drop items it's almost impossible not to get something from them. After I got the 12th horn I would not get a single one just skins, and exactly after I had a friend party with me the Rams dropped Horns again. It was so clear cut too, we disbanded our party a few times checking this and every time I had more then 12 horns solo I would not get anymore but the instant we partied they'd drop again.

That also was before I had TH I'll have to see now how the Rams drops are with it.

[Dux]

Was musing over the effects of TH myself rescently, specifically the AoE for TH2.

Will TH2 only work if the Thief is fighting the monsters? Close to the monster? In the same zone? In the same party? In the same alliance?

If its in the same party/alliance but not in the same zone then great! Tell your local friendly thief to join a party with you as he crafts / sleeps / whatever and you gain the benefit of TH/TH2 as you camp mindlessly for hours and hours for whatever item you are after.

Just a thought anyway. Any ideas?

[kazuri]

As far as I know, the THF needs hate in order for TH/TH2 to take effect? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I forget stuff often

I know I read something about this before... will look up.

[Alexander]

My experience is that THF needs to hit the monster at least once, and the effect is increased somewhat if THF gets the final blow, preferably from a regular, non-WS hit.