Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

You are really fucking annoying.

That's kind-of rough. It's a joke. I'm just picking on OMGWTF for word choice. After all, he's usually really careful with his words and there's very few chances to poke fun. I'm sure he knows that.

I'm sorry that we don't see eye to eye about the smoking issue, but I was under the impression that the entire debate was behind us. I don't remember making any insulting comments to you. If I did I appologize. I'm actually ashamed that the argument on that thread got so out of hand in the first place. IMHO it got too heated too quickly and I probably should have picked a less controvercial topic to begin with... like how I stubbed my toe on the oven that morning... or how people who say "aint" bother me sometimes.

Posting something like this reminds me of the time you suggested that I wasn't the age I claimed to be. At least I don't take out my frustrations at people in a public setting. A private message to me would have been equally effective.

[DakAttack]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

That's kind-of rough. It's a joke. I'm just picking on OMGWTF for word choice. After all, he's usually really careful with his words and there's very few chances to poke fun. I'm sure he knows that.

I'm sorry that we don't see eye to eye about the smoking issue, but I was under the impression that the entire debate was behind us. I don't remember making any insulting comments to you. If I did I appologize. I'm actually ashamed that the argument on that thread got so out of hand in the first place. IMHO it got too heated too quickly and I probably should have picked a less controvercial topic to begin with... like how I stubbed my toe on the oven that morning... or how people who say "aint" bother me sometimes.

Posting something like this reminds me of the time you suggested that I wasn't the age I claimed to be. At least I don't take out my frustrations at people in a public setting. A private message to me would have been equally effective.

Ok.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Hahahahahahaha. I love when people post one word responces. Especially when they quote something so gigantic. I click on the link with antisipation... AND!!!!!!!!!

"ok"

Thanks dude... lol. That made my day.

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

SMNs just keep going on and on about MP consumption although they've been given tons of ways to conserve and manage it better. Summoning is supposed to be high cost. This is proven in every Final Fantasy game ever sans FFVIII. Kiss all your CPs goodbye when you summon in FFXIII. The design is to make SMNs decisive killers but not banked on for everything.

Aye, the problem is while the cost of BPs is largely reasonable the effect you get for them isn't. Avatars suck plain and simple. I think SE could have done away with a lot of the bitching a long time ago if they had simply just addressed the power level and usage of BPs years ago. I think they just got too chicken shit over making them too powerful leading to wide abuse of SMN (not that that hasn't already happened at one point or another >_>)

Thing is, SMN will never replace a BLM even if their pact damage was raised dramatically, or a WHM if their healing/buffing was increased as well; The job does not have the MP endurance to indefinitely sustain pacts nor should it. That's what being a SMN is all about. Large, game-changing effects at a high cost compared to a specialized class. Don't much feel like rehashing what's been said a million times already.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

SE has said time and again that FFXIV will not launch with pet classes. Lancer will not have a wyvern, there will be no beastmaster or puppetmaster. By extention that would include summoner, wouldn't it?

If there are no pet jobs, but there are summons and we can acquire their aid, what am I left to conclude based on the information given thus far?

I can sit here and hope for Corsair or Blue Mage, but it seems they're not going ot be there, either. Not every FF keeps all the jobs around.

[Shirai]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Yygdrasil, you really are annoying as hell.
For calling yourself a career summoner you really show lack of knowledge about the job, let alone game mechanics.

Malacite, I agree with you as far as caring wether new avatars come or not.
But I still see no reason given why the job would suck other then the cliché 'But other jobs Q_Q' and 'Not used for everything Q_Q'.
And the cliché of clichés: 'We're nothing but healers Q_Q'
Summoner is not a bard, summoner is not a white mage, summoner is not a red mage, summoner is not a corsair.
Summoner can be all of those, and yet it is none of them, it is that versatility I love about this job!
It cannot replace any of the above mentioned jobs, and yet it can.

Foobar, as far as I could read we shouldn't even be speaking of 'jobs' or 'classes' in 14.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Foobar, as far as I could read we shouldn't even be speaking of 'jobs' or 'classes' in 14.

Meh. I'm just trying to get them off balance is all.

SMN is what it is. SE has done alot with it and I don't think they'd make players happier with the job no matter what they did. SMNs want to act like the forsaken job of FFXI, fine, be like the DRGs of 2004/2005 then. Some class always has to have a core of people that are never happy.

If your LS dogs SMNs, you need to get out of that LS. I don't care what points you have with them, they're tools and working with people who are tools is never fun.

[Shirai]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

SMN is what it is. SE has done alot with it and I don't think they'd make players happier with the job no matter what they did. SMNs want to act like the forsaken job of FFXI, fine, be like the DRGs of 2004/2005 then. Some class always has to have a core of people that are never happy.

I guess I should leave it at these words.
Just keeping in the back of my head that summoner isn't that bad off in the overall picture.

Of course I am well aware summoner isn't useful for everything, but you could say that for 14 of the other jobs too.
Yet it isn't one of the few jobs that is classified by the (endgame) community as 'completely useless' either.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Just keeping in the back of my head that summoner isn't that bad off in the overall picture.

. . . what job has it worse? The only jobs I see even remotely plausible arguments for are Thief, Beastmaster, and Ninja main, but at least none of those jobs were failed by design from the word go. Sure, certain few endgame events would pick up a Summoner over a Dancer, for example, but that would only be after getting Blood Pacts powerful enough to deserve the one-minute recast timer, after 70 levels of either grinding up MP/WHM or Astral burning (which I still approve highly of the latter, if only for it presently being one of the scarce alternatives there are to the former).

[Shirai]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

. . . what job has it worse? The only jobs I see even remotely plausible arguments for are Thief, Beastmaster, and Ninja main, but at least none of those jobs were failed by design from the word go. Sure, certain few endgame events would pick up a Summoner over a Dancer, for example, but that would only be after getting Blood Pacts powerful enough to deserve the one-minute recast timer, after 70 levels of either grinding up MP/WHM or Astral burning (which I still approve highly of the latter, if only for it presently being one of the scarce alternatives there are to the former).

You're naming a few already.

Beastmaster, even though a pretty powerful job on its own when it comes to soloing and in a group of them.
But when it comes to several ingame events they are easily passed over, in both endgame as well as exp/merit situations.
Aside from that there hardly are any fights both outside or inside B/KSNMs where beastmaster has any purpose or use.
Damage wise they're not better then gimp warriors, and pets aren't that helpful in that direction either.

Dancer, although nice to have in earlier level exp parties is no more then a handy soloing sub.
They lack the damage to actually be considered in high end fights and they lack the buffing capabilities to actually fully replace a support job.

Puppetmaster, considered by many as FFXI's loljob.
Sure with the right equipment they can and will kick ass, and they are the only job able to solo Diabolos Prime.
Puppetmaster in that regard is a job that has a stigma problem, but in that regard there are also very few puppetmasters actually willing and able to show what the job is capable of.
Simply because if you want to compete with the big boys you'll need a lot of very expensive and hard to obtain gear.
Then again in most endgame battles they don't have any use.
Their mediocre h2h skill puts them behind on melee damage quite a but, and then there's the puppet.
Yeah.. people forget about that little critter, don't they?
But realistically speaking, what can that do on a HNM?

Ninja, once a great tank job now litterally crushed by the power of PLD/NIN.
Sure they can still tank, but need twice the support a paladin needs.
Damage wise they're a little better off then Dancer or Thief but not by much.

Summoner again the 'Q_Q I'm a healer' stigma.
Probably forgetting that summoner by itself is a pretty powerful soloing job if you're not in a hurry to get it to 75.
Otherwise there's still campaign too where summoner actually is a pretty powerful exp gainer if you know how to use your AoE healing pacts.

Exp is what exp is, the same thing over and over until you see that counter hit 43.999/44.000.
And then repeat the entire cycle all over to cap your merits.
You think melee have it any better or, bards? Red mages?
I never see red mages whine that they have to main heal so much in merit/exp parties and have no time to enfeeble either.
The only difference is that Red mage gets cure spells on their main job.

In Endgame activities summoner can fill many roles, healer, buffer, DD and recently added: Refresh whore.
(Summon Diabolos activate Favor, equip my Favor set to cap at 4MP/Tick and sit on my ass!! AWESOME!!)
Sure they may not be 'first choice' for everything, but hey! Join the other 17 jobs.
If you want to be first choice for every event in the game, go level bard, red mage or corsair.

The reason summoner is skipped over more then it should by the way is because of this whiny attitude of people.
Summoner is not a DD job, live with it.

[Zoltar]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

SMN is great for soloing at high levels, its a good healer/dd when you have free carby, and its a great assister in parties. Being able to throw 1-3k damage in a single hit is a great thing to have at your disposal. Not to mention blinkga, stoneskinga, hastega, etc. Yes there are other jobs which supply these favors, but having a backup job to help with buffs and dd'n is a great thing to have.

And don't be jealous about our Burns, they're greater than any other burn.

When I think of another avatar, I don't really think about who it is and whatnot, I think 'what can it give us that no-one else can do'. I'd love an avatar that can breakga stuff or have an effect like Sweet Breath.

[Romyro]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

And don't be jealous about our Burns, they're greater than any other burn.

Good god please don’t encourage people to level Smn this way. I can see maybe for merits here and their but not the grind.

So sick of seeing horrible smn after horrible smn come out of Kor. Tunnel.

[Zoltar]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Good god please don’t encourage people to level Smn this way. I can see maybe for merits here and their but not the grind.

So sick of seeing horrible smn after horrible smn come out of Kor. Tunnel.

who said leveling? I merit this way. Don't hate. I do it almost every night and we do very well at it

[ShepardG]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Dancer, although nice to have in earlier level exp parties is no more then a handy soloing sub.
They lack the damage to actually be considered in high end fights and they lack the buffing capabilities to actually fully replace a support job.

Not true, If you don't have a dancer in your zerg, or in your best DD party for dyna/einherjar, your doing it wrong. .... EDIT: your not doing it "wrong", your just not doing it as efficently/ productivley as you could be.

3 of your best DD's, COR,BRD,DNC with outside WHM hasting/healing will tear through mobs before they even have a chance to use a TP move most of the time. (This is assuming your dancer has full haste samba merits)

We only take about 6 DD's into einherjar anymore. anymore is a waste of a spot, but if you don't think that 5-10% def,magic evasion, evasion down(and that "buffs" the entire alliance to include the magic users)+Haste samba+Instacast Healing Waltz+ Pyrric Keleos+ instant 780 cures + provoke +Stun spam+ solo darkness skillchains isn't enough "support" that's fine... I guess.

I mean, I do 600+ Dancing Edges, 700+eviscerations, 500+ PK WS on dyna mobs, and -about 100 off those numbers for einherjar mobs. If you've seen a good dancer at bird camps you'd see those numbers double.

But your right, there's a stimga against dancers, I think it's because it looks so damn gay doing it's abilities. *shrug*.

Puppetmaster, considered by many as FFXI's loljob.
Sure with the right equipment they can and will kick ass, and they are the only job able to solo Diabolos Prime.
Puppetmaster in that regard is a job that has a stigma problem, but in that regard there are also very few puppetmasters actually willing and able to show what the job is capable of.
Simply because if you want to compete with the big boys you'll need a lot of very expensive and hard to obtain gear.
Then again in most endgame battles they don't have any use.
Their mediocre h2h skill puts them behind on melee damage quite a but, and then there's the puppet.
Yeah.. people forget about that little critter, don't they?
But realistically speaking, what can that do on a HNM?

-They actually can't solo diabolos prime anymore, got nerfed recently
-yeah their hand-2-hand sucks, but PUP/SCH has (especially with some of the mini-expansion equipment geared towards pet stats) great DD potential on alot of Endgame mobs, (Faf,KB(can chase and nuke which is awesome)Aspid, Tiamat, I'd be curious to see one at khim, DI with the ranged frame has some slight potential, um sandworm pup/sch would be great, etc

Damage wise they're a little better off then Dancer or Thief but not by much.

NIN can't DD better than a Dancer i'm calling it right now, or a thief either. As far as mitigating damge, DNC/NIN is way better a tank than NIN at this point. Fan dance every 3 Min's (with full merits) pulls that out, along with self Cure+erase+10%haste+drain samba III+ reverse Flourish.

Sorry, saw your post and had to inject a little info, not being rude, but I dont' think people realize how underutilized DNC is, espeically endgame. I started playing the job and reading about the merit potential it has and I fell in love, so yeah there's some personal resentment there, but those numbers are acurate, I'll try and get some official parse numbers this weekend and post them in the dancer section.

[Romyro]

Re: Version Update: New Avatar Speculations

Sorry…maybe I jumped the gun.

I don’t hate people who merit that way. You’ve gone through the grind to 75, however you get your xp after I could careless.

But when people decide ‘I wanna play smn’ and end up lvling it w/in a week or 2 via burning…they are down right horrible. It’s sad when high level smns are unsure how to carby pull, or kite a mob, or how to run out of range when calling an avatar, or constantly miss BPs. All they seem to know is how to Astral Flow x3.