Damage Dealing in a Party

[Losrase]

I need some advice. I started playing summoner again after about year. My summoner was level 30(just leveled it to finish the first 3 promies quickly) but now is level 33. The party I was invited to a let me be a DD and I realize I have completely forgotten how to play a summoner DD.

The same problems always seem to arise. I tried leaving an avatar(Fenrir) out full time and usually run out of MP during chain 2. I also tried Ramuah full time and ran out of mp during chain 3. Carbuncle full time and had mp left after chain 5 but Carbie missed a lot. What I did, to at least be useful, is cast dia, use Fenrir for Lunar Cry and Crescent everytime the time was up then rest. Back up heal if needed. If Lunar wore off then I would reuse it, if not I would use Garuda with Aerial Armor. I basicly killed the chance I had to DD and became support. Here is my list of questions:

1) Do I leave my avatar out full time?
2) If I do leave an avatar out full time, which one would you DD with?
3) If I dont, do I just summon and do my strongest damaging bloodpact and a buff bloodpact then rest for mp?
4) If I dont, do I just summon and do my strongest damaging bloodpact?

If you have any extra advice please post or know of a guide could you please post a link.

[Kardor]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

Hmm if youre just invited for DD purposes save your MP on Rage BPs.
Just throw out a Ward BP if your party really needs it e.g if your party has Acc issues or the Nin has trouble keeping Shadows up.

About leaving an Avatar out, dont do that unless you want to build TP for a move.
The Tier II and IV Magic will benefit from that.

Thoose are the most reliable source of dmg to my experience.
For all other BPs try what does best damage on a mob, though the dmg is pretty fluctuating there should be a tendency of one BP doing higher/consitent damage.

Keep an eye on the SCs if you can Burst or Finish one e.g. Red Lotus Blade -> Burning Strike will create detonation iirc.

You should: Summon, build TP if needed (helps Bursting, do <pettpp> if u wanna check avatars TP), use Rage Bloodpact, unsummon, rest/wait 60 secs -> repeat.

But Summoner is not a pure DD Job, it covers all aspects from Buffing/Debuffing to Damage/Heal and Support.
Even though ure DDing watch your Partys needs, this does not mean you have to Cure full time, thats the Whm / Rdms Job if the PT has one.

[Neo Android]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

Im a summoner i refuse to main heal, and they accept it, and say its about time someone said no. I keep my avatar out most of the time to build up TP then unleash a devasting attack, but then my sub helps alot since its not /whm. So i can cast BLM magic well also. One time i casted a tier 1 spell and it did more damage than the tier 2 spell from the blm (guess i got lucky). If need arises i can cure in situations. Also after its best to summon the avatar that is strongest on its day the blood pact will do more damage (if you just summon, bp it then desummon). I almost always keep carby out after i have de-summoned one of the others. And thats so my little fella can help when he needs to (carbunacle mitts)

I know my way may seem stupid or i-logical to others, but its worked so far, and i have even had compliements from pt memebers about it.

I also use ifirit alot since he represents fire but also WAR. Shiva ice but MNK, Ramuh Lighting BLM.

I love being a summoner, but most of all i love being a Damage Dealing Summoner ^_^

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

I don't have a problem with smns that don't want to main heal. I do have a problem with smns that whine about not being able to get a party if they refuse to main heal. If a smn is comfortable with getting less partys and possibly having to solo a lot, then more power to them. More often than not this isn't the case though. In FFXI, many jobs need to be flexible to fit to the style of the party or the mobs you are fighting. You do a disservice to yourself by sticking yourself in one catagory only all of the time if you choose to only be a damage dealer imo.

[Losrase]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

My summon of choice as of level 33-34 was Leviathan. He cost less per tick than Fenrir but has less enfeebling bloodpacts. For some reason he hits around the same damage as Fenrir and has about the same accuracy. I was using him on fireday and iceday but I dont know if those days gave him some kind of extra damage.

Leviathan was doing the same melee damage as our THF and NIN tank in the party. The bloodpact (Tail Slap) was around the NINs WS damage if he was below 100TP and around the THF WS damage if he was at 100TP.

My Heal/DD plan was:

Buff with Garuda before the fight (we has a SAM/WAR for an off tank for the NIN/WAR) then summon Leviathan and use Tail slap(Gravity effect). Desummon and heal/rest. If the there is a time where I am able to resummon Leviathan again then I would tail slap and desummon. Everyone once in a while ill summon Ramuh and use the Ward Rolling thunder then the bloodpact thunder spark. Desummon and heal/rest. The party member like both summons because I did around 200 damage with the Leviathan (around 400 if I summon him twice).I did around 250 with Ramuh with the damaged gain from Rolling thunder and the damage done by thunder spark.

[ospeff]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

Old thread but... I've been trying out summoner as a DD and it just doesn't work. The bps give you the illusion that you're doing good damage but they are on a 1 minute cooldown, the avatar's melee/auto attack is decent but you cannot keep them out for a good amount of time due to running out of MP. If the BP cooldowns were something like 30 seconds it would be worth keeping an avatar up the whole fight so you could BP twice. The class is quite obvious designed around alternating between buffing and damage bps, it is impossible to focus on one aspect. Even at higher levels I don't think it would get much better.

[Solymir]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

Don't think of it as trying to be DD. Think of it as adding some damage to the overall performance of a party. If you get to use just one BP during every fight you will improve the kill rate of the party as a whole. The early levels are the hardest ones to find a balance between using Ward and Rage BP's. Mainly because your MP pool is so low. One thing you can do to help this is if you use a Ward and Rage BP from a single avatar you can get back to /heal or backup healing a lot faster than if you have to summon a 2nd avatar.

My personal choice early on was Fenrir with Lunar Cry (Ward) and Crescent Fang (Rage). My alternate was Garuda for shadows (but only if the party wanted it, most didn't) and then Claw (very cheap MP). Once I got Earthen Ward at level 46 things got a little more interesting. Any chance you get after this level you should put stoneskin on your party, but I don't really recommend using Titan's Rage BP's. His Acc blows. I noticed around this time that mobs seemed to have a lot more HP and fights were lasting longer so I would usually get the opportunity to use another round of blood pacts. Generally I would just use Earthen Ward one round, and the other round I would use a Ward and Rage from another avatar. As you get higher in level your choices get even better.

Never pinhole the Summoner job as one thing or another. We are not the best DD's, we are not the best healers, and we are not the best buffers. But we do it all and we do it all very well. Also, we do most of it without getting any hate.

[Dracko Of South Africa]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

Purely situational. You need to learn your enmies weakeness (ie elemental weakness, blunt or piercing dmg, etc), because that decides how much damage you'll cause. Secondly do not keep you avatar out for long if you are going to DD, focus mainly on SC & MB (as mentioned by Kardor). Keeping you avatar out for long will increase you downtime, unless you have a refresh whore later on. Fenny has consistent dmg, whereas the other avatars will vary based on the day.

Smn generaly becomes an effective DD post 65 (fenny) & kicks but at 70+, though equipment will be a pain. As the guys mentioned read the situation, as your /sub determines what type of role you'll be playing in the pt, always be prepared for anything. I remember when I was in the 30's, I was doing more dmg that a NIN & Thf @ the crawler's nest with Ifrit, plus I would set up for magic burst which gave the SAM we had a run for his gil.

Curremtly my smn is lvl70 & don't want to lvl it w/o yy robe & e.ring

[Darkhound]

Re: Damage Dealing in a Party

Well, lets see.
I guess it all comes down on what you want to do. I really LOVE to do DAMAGE,but I do not think we are the best DD's. The other day, I took PT as a main healer on imps, with a cor and a bard. I was healing and leviathan was DESTRYOING those imps for awesome DD.

I have been gathering blood pact dely - gear for it and seems to work pretty well