summoner update ideal.

[Bolla]

Summoner should be able to have control of their spirit blood packs..
If they can, the recast timer should be base off of there summoning skill.
I wish shiva and the other avatars can use ancient magic. I know that it won't be
fair to just update the summoner, but I will be glad that all jobs will get a nice update.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: summoner update ideal.

The spirits follow an algorithm for what to cast, though it's not completely deterministic (from the point of the view of the player). A knowledgeable Summoner (probably with some help from the party) can create condition for which the spirits would be more likely to cast desirable spells.

From: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...98439716232797

Bear in mind, this isn't the whole story. Unlike avatars, you cannot choose what magic spell a Spirit will use. It is chosen somewhat randomly, though certain variables such as day and the elemental weakness of the target come into play.

At the level that a spirit can cast ancient magic, it also has a list of "preferred" spells that it likes to use. You will see these in parentheses in the level chart above. For the most part, the spell the spirit will cast is randomly chosen from that list. However, there are some rules that govern that choice:

1: A spirit will not cast an enfeebling spell that is already stuck on the mob.

2: A spirit is more likely to cast a damaging spell if your HP is low.

3: A spirit is more likely to cast the more powerful spells if the ratio of your Summoning Magic Skill to the mobs level is high.

4: A spirit is most likely to cast a strong attack spell on its weakest day (i.e. Fire Spirit on Watersday) against a mob that is weak to the spirits element.

More info: http://killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=75469

Most SMNs I've seen in parties either lack the skill, knowledge, MP, Summoning skill, or inclination to make use of these. Though, to be fair, I don't know if it's a good idea to rely on these spirits or not, even for a skilled and knowledgeable Summoner.

[Akashimo]

Re: summoner update ideal.

Spirits if anything now, are just the quick recast pet that lets you get away in time. Light Spirit is like the whm frame for pup, but it can't cast na spells, longer recast time on cures, and very hard to make it buff a person you want it to buff at times. Sadly, they're really not the worth of mp a tick for keeping them at for any fight however long.

[Losrase]

Re: summoner update ideal.

The summoner should be able to set the spirits to auto (the way the behave today) or Manual (like a beast pet) If it is manual then if the summoner sends their spirit to attack, the spirit should cast offensive spells. If the summoner does not send their spirit to attack, the spirit should cast defensive/support spells.

I still dont think the summoner should be able to control the exact spell casted. I always thought spirits were magical creature with a basic thought process unlike avatars who can reason. The spirit will try its best to help its summoner spending on which command it was given.

[Akashimo]

Re: summoner update ideal.

A spirit is nothing more than a user spawned weather elemental. Those too cast in similar ways to that of what we get for pets. Sad to say, much weaker than most of their level. The cost is just to much to use for such weak pets. My personal fav was Fire spirit casting blaze spikes and burn... That and light spirit casting Regen over Protect II <.<;

[Nataka]

Re: summoner update ideal.

Yeah, really the issue with spirits is their MP cost. I love the guys, I think the idea behind them is very interesting and has a LOT of potential with the right amount of +smnskill gear, but even with all the merits and -prep cost gear their cost is still a little too much to keep them out with the fact they might not cast anything good :x

Also: be careful about thinking what would be 'ideal', 'cause you'll only be disappointed in the end lol.

[Akashimo]

Re: summoner update ideal.

Ideal is to work like how the automation blm and whm frames work.

[Pteryx]

Re: summoner update ideal.

It does sound as though the next SMN update will have something to do with the elemental spirits and MP, possibly lowering their costs on the proper day. We'll see, though. (I just wish they'd hurry up and improve the Acc or Att of avatars, myself, but making the spirits worth something is nice too.) -- Pteryx

[Nataka]

Re: summoner update ideal.

Ideal is to work like how the automation blm and whm frames work.

Geez, that would be the ideal. It makes my mouth water '

[Akashimo]

Re: summoner update ideal.

It does sound as though the next SMN update will have something to do with the elemental spirits and MP, possibly lowering their costs on the proper day. We'll see, though. (I just wish they'd hurry up and improve the Acc or Att of avatars, myself, but making the spirits worth something is nice too.) -- Pteryx

Be nice if we could pay hp a tick to become the avatar and control using their model. That or something to go back to the level of summoner vanishes and avatar appears.

[Malacite]

Re: summoner update ideal.

Here's a thought...

How about making avatars not suck. That's all. I've ranted about all my ideas in previous posts and don't feel like collecting them into 1 big rant just now.

[Omniblast]

Re: summoner update ideal.

They keep adding frivolous abilities to SMN when it's not necessary.

There's a couple of things they can do already in game that would help smn a lot such as:

Improving current abilities of smn so that the damage curve isn't dealt such a heavy blow. Missing attacks, and so forth are part of it as well. (5 merits into avatar physical accuracy + af2 bracers and I end up doing 130 to besiged mobs.)

If the mob is not close enough for the attack to land, the mp should not be consumed for the blood pact.

Perpetuation, decreasing it.

Blood Pact mp cost. This is one of the main drainers for smn mp drain. Costs for usage of smn is very high especially when we have to last vs. a easy prey or decent challenge mob. Yes I know we could technically carby kite, but what's the point of having 9 avatars and 7 spirits when they would leave you if you ran out of mp? May fall into the perpetuation portion as well.

resting while avatar is out

Well maybe a lot of those ideas are just too "far fetched" for something as iconic as Avatars from Final Fantasy.

[Lord Nat]

Re: summoner update ideal.

I think if they just made them not have a MP/Tick cost then you'd be able to at least keep the way they work more or less them same.

Then summoners can burn MP on Avatars, Summon up an Element, rest to recover MP. It'd fit with the Summoner play style as well being "Big attack once in awhile".

[Malacite]

Re: summoner update ideal.

*sigh* may as well get my rant on (got nothing else to do) Also, I don't want to hear any crap about balance issues. Some of my ideas may be going too overpowering, but such has always been the nature of SMN and I don't understand why SE shies away from it. SMN should wield immense power (they summon gods!!!) but at a cost (Fragile body and intensive MP).

I've always loved how in the previous games SMN was so powerful, but also required careful use of their MP lest you be left with naught but a fragile little mage. A veritable glass cannon (more so than BLM)

More Variance in Avatars:

- Seeing as Ifrit is the god of fire, and fire governs STR, why does Ifrit not deal the most physical damage? At least out of the current avatars anyway? The same should really apply to the other avatars. It would make them that much more unique and flavorful, and really give SMN more versatility.

Ifrit (STR + DD/enmity) Titan (VIT + Physical Def) Garuda (AGI + Speed) Ramuh (DEX + Critical Hits) Leviathan (MND + Magic Def) Shiva (INT + Magic AttacK) Carbuncle (CHR(?) + Healing)... Fenrir and Diabolos are bit harder to place since Darkness is a bit of an enigma and the only stat it pertains to is MP, but you get the idea.

No tanks seeking? Have a SMN whip out Titan or Ifrit and try it that way. Ifrit would follow the kill or be killed strategy given that should be offensive oriented (making him good for burn set ups), while Titan would last much longer due to his defensive nature but also generate less enmity.

I think this would be awesome, since the SMN would have to be very careful in regards to what the party does and how long their avatar lasts. If they're not careful or don't put enough distance between them an the mob, well, they're gonna end up dead unless the PT does something. People want a new and unique way to tank? There, I just gave it to you.


Summoning Magic Skill:

- This is probably one of the biggest issues SMN has. This skill does jack shit. No one bothers with spirits in parties, and IMO, requiring more skill than your current skill cap to get any kind of performance boost out of blood pacts is an outright insult.

Why doesn't SE change it so that an Avatar's stats and performance scale more appropriately according to skill level as opposed to just SMN level? This goes double for Blood Pacts. A lv 75 SMN with capped skill and one with much less should not both do the same or similar damage with their blood pacts. That's BS.


Blood Pacts:

- The bread and butter of the job. Why oh why SE do so many of them suck horse cock? Tier 2 and 4 nukes well before BLM gets them and they are out damaged by said BLM with spells of lower tiers? WTF is that? Rolling Thunder, Warcry and Frost Armor are all pretty damn useless. In fact, a lot of the damaging BP's pre-70 don't even match the damage of your average weapon skill.

If we're going to spend the MP to summon our avatars (possibly even *gasp* keep them out) and then spend more MP for special attacks, how about some bang for our buck? Why the hell should we have to wait until 70 to do any real damage? (And even then most Melee can easily out damage them either through DoT or other abilities and enhancements. Never mind the crazy MP cost of the 70 BPs) The fact that they can hit HNMs for good dmg is a crap excuse
.

WHM v.2

- This is my biggest gripe of all with SMN in this game. Being relegated to subbing WHM and main healing for any chance of decent EXP in a party setting sucks. period. The lack of being able to DD or other party functions aside, it's not even so much the main healing aspect.

It's that we basically act as a second WHM with a bigger MP pool with a cute little neon squirrel and his friends. Why not just level WHM then? I think that Carbuncle should undergo a massive rehauling. Let Alexander (if we ever get him) bring the Light Elemental smack down (as he damn well should).

Carbuncle's always been a support avatar, let's keep him that way. I'd like his Astral Flow changed back to Ruby Light or some variation of it, but then that'd screw up the Mini-Forks pretty badly (Good Job SE...)

So for now, how about we buff up his support and healing abilities. I don't mind tossing the occasional cure as a SMN, but if I'm going to main heal I think it would be a lot more fun and interesting if I could do that via Carbuncle.

Separating all blood pacts into individual timers would be a huge help. But in lieu of that, I propose we pump up his healing pacts. Maybe add a Regen Effect (that goes up with TP) to Healing Ruby so that people aren't dying inbetween pacts. ANYTHING that encourages keeping the little guy out and using him rather than lolCures to keep the party alive. You know, like a summoner.


Strategic use of MP and pacts should be the focus of SMN and not whoring out Cures.

[Susurrus]

Re: summoner update ideal.

This topic again.