So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

[Akashimo]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Oh yeah... i forgot avatar fights = 10k XD
<.<; rdm/nin {START button}
Thanks for reminding about that ;3
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[Malacite]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

120x144 =17,280 gil in rolanberries >.>b

Also, BLU/SCH ftw. B rank healing magic + Magic Fruit = hory ****!

[Taskmage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

For any Red Mages looking to sub it, especially all the ones who know the job as nothing but a backliner, and I mean all those who cringed when S-E stated their intent to move Red Mages to the front line: I personally think that they should just take Scholar and MAIN it, since they're so intent on being on the back line all the time.

Ok .. a bit off topic with this reply, but this comment has been eating at me.

The abilities that make rdm so desirable as a backline position are Convert, Refresh and Dispel. Arguably it's the maintainence of the latter two that make rdm next to useless on the frontline. Scholar has none of those abilities, so suggesting that backline rdms replace themselves with scholars is useless. Scholars can't do the job that rdms do. The people who play rdm as a dedicated backliner probably do it either because a) they altruistically want to enhance their parties in the best way they can or b) they are selfishly attracted to the invite rate associated with providing refresh and haste, probably some combination of the two—NOT because the like the view better from 20 ilms away. Again, scholar provides neither of these benefits. Suggesting a swap from backliner rdm to scholar is beneficial neither to the people who play them nor the parties who invite them.

I think it is more reasonable to say, if you're so intent on being able to frontline all the time, why don't you just main blue mage?

[Vyuru]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Out of curiosity, Scholar as subjob still grants access to stacked job abilities correct?

How do these work with Summoner's Bloodpacts?

If you could stack the reuse timers on Bloodpacts I could see this as being a useful sub for those Summoners who want to summon and not be a pseudo Whm.

[Gobo]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Out of curiosity, Scholar as subjob still grants access to stacked job abilities correct?
How do these work with Summoner's Bloodpacts?
If you could stack the reuse timers on Bloodpacts I could see this as being a useful sub for those Summoners who want to summon and not be a pseudo Whm.

Regardless of whether or not it works with BPs (and I doubt it does) you only get 1 charge from /SCH.

[Sabaron]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Regardless of whether or not it works with BPs (and I doubt it does) you only get 1 charge from /SCH.

Wait a minute... I get to stack JA's other than Stratagems like Divine and Elemental Seal? Are you sure?

[Ellipses]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Wait a minute... I get to stack JA's other than Stratagems like Divine and Elemental Seal? Are you sure?

No. Of course not. This was some kind of silly rumor that got started after the fanfests, because of really twisted readings of the information provided at the time.

[Taskmage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

It's only the strategems that store charges like that. The babelfish translation was ambiguous.

[Vyuru]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

It's only the strategems that store charges like that.

Ok, so Scholar is useless then >.>

[Yellow Mage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Ok .. a bit off topic with this reply, but this comment has been eating at me.

The abilities that make rdm so desirable as a backline position are Convert, Refresh and Dispel. Arguably it's the maintainence of the latter two that make rdm next to useless on the frontline. Scholar has none of those abilities, so suggesting that backline rdms replace themselves with scholars is useless. Scholars can't do the job that rdms do. The people who play rdm as a dedicated backliner probably do it either because a) they altruistically want to enhance their parties in the best way they can or b) they are selfishly attracted to the invite rate associated with providing refresh and haste, probably some combination of the two—NOT because the like the view better from 20 ilms away. Again, scholar provides neither of these benefits. Suggesting a swap from backliner rdm to scholar is beneficial neither to the people who play them nor the parties who invite them.

I think it is more reasonable to say, if you're so intent on being able to frontline all the time, why don't you just main blue mage?

This comment has been eating away at me, too.

Your arguements all state things that make Red Mage so desireable, yet the only unique thing I see there is Convert. Sure, the latter two require maintainence, but the latter two could also be handled by Bards and Corsairs equally as well (especially Bards once they get their single-target update). 'Bbq himself stated that a Corsair is keen with the Mage buffing. And Corsairs still get to DD, though it's back there with the Mages, because they use guns. (Heck, our Dispel is even subbable, for that matter.)

Which brings me to my next point: Bards and Corsairs have Refreshes and Dispels, so why don't Scholars? If you ask me, that's really the only missing piece to seal the deal with all current "backline onry" Red Mages.

I wonder why people act like they didn't hear that announcement at the FanFest about Red Mages. It makes me wonder if they were doing that whole cover the ears and "lalala not listening!" bit during that part. Red Mages are getting more motive to frontline, and while I don't necessarily advocate being there 100% of the time (I would really prefer 50%, at least), the "backline onry" school of thought really needs to be left right there: at school, with the Scholars, seeing as that's what they were designed to do.

May I rhetorically ask what Red Mages were designed to do?

These fighter mages utilize both white and black magic, as well as arts of the sword.

Though, upon closing, it is still our very first priority to Enfeeble: how else are we going to hit anything with our admittedly mediocre melee skills?

(And, if you're watching S-E, throw One-handed weapons a bone! Red Mages can't utilize Two-handers, and we certainly don't want no Staff skill [that was for Malacite >_>], so, please, write this down: 1 STR = 1 Attack for 2-Handers only, but 1 DEX = 1 Accuracy for 1-Handers only. It's a fair deal, and can't be abused by Dual-Wield. Everybody wins.)



As for the Blue Mage thing, check my sig. Or, if you're too lazy, read on . . .

Red Mages could perform many roles, including main heal. When you can do multiple things, you always end up doing what's needed most, most often.

Blue mages knew from the get-go. If the start doing "support-y" things, it's all they'll do.

[Karinya]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Ok .. a bit off topic with this reply, but this comment has been eating at me.
The abilities that make rdm so desirable as a backline position are Convert, Refresh and Dispel. Arguably it's the maintainence of the latter two that make rdm next to useless on the frontline.

Slight nitpick: Dispel works slightly *better* from the frontline - that's where you can see the monster buff itself more clearly (and spikes are even *more* obvious, you hit them yourself).

What hurts the frontline RDM is the need to be casting a lot, and the fact that at higher levels if you *do* have time when you're not casting, you may be better off resting and nuking than meleeing (even when there aren't dangerous AoEs).

Oh, and the marid in the room: staves. Overwhelmingly good for magic, horrible for melee, they compel anyone who has them to stand at a safe distance, because you're not likely to hit anyone with them and if you did you wouldn't do decent damage anyway. Give RDM an "Eight Elements Sword" that doesn't have to be swapped out and kill your TP *and* can swing in between casts and land for damage, and you'd see more frontline RDMs against a great many monsters, even with no other changes whatsoever.

Scholar has none of those abilities, so suggesting that backline rdms replace themselves with scholars is useless.

Another nitpick: SCH/RDM can not only dispel, they can dispel*ga*. And with dispel's inherent magic acc (I've seen BRD/RDMs land it), B skill isn't going to be a holdup.

Scholars can't do the job that rdms do. The people who play rdm as a dedicated backliner probably do it either because a) they altruistically want to enhance their parties in the best way they can or b) they are selfishly attracted to the invite rate associated with providing refresh and haste, probably some combination of the two—NOT because the like the view better from 20 ilms away. Again, scholar provides neither of these benefits. Suggesting a swap from backliner rdm to scholar is beneficial neither to the people who play them nor the parties who invite them.

This is pretty much true - at least 40+, which is where rdm becomes more defined as a distinct main job of its own anyway.

Right now SCH is looking uncomfortably like the original RDM - not good at anything, no real reason to want one. (And without Fast Cast, MAB or MDB, and with a worse spell list than the original RDM...)

Weather on demand is not exactly refresh and convert, party-desirability-wise. Even *with* sea obis it's only a 10% improvement - that you have to pay MP for - and the most consistently useful weather, light for the healer, is also the last one they get. Without obis the benefit is less - maybe much less - because it only activates randomly.

I think it is more reasonable to say, if you're so intent on being able to frontline all the time, why don't you just main blue mage?

Because then they might run out of MP, if a RDM isn't around to help them. BLU has an Achilles' heel too, it just isn't in their melee (or general damage-dealing) capability.

Really, if RDM could do even halfway decent damage, what would keep us from being an uberjob? We're already the kings of getting through hostile areas (*including* true-sight-infested ones) alive, can kite practically anything, second (or maybe now third) best healers in the game, one of the best at crowd control, amazing endurance, stealth spells, unique and desirable buffs, two of the game's most crucial debuffs (Silence and Dispel)... damage is almost the only reason we need party members at all. *And that's all without subjob*, giving us free choice of many other useful abilities.

[Bryn]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Indeed, the possibilities seem interesting. A reraise II hairpin solves the reraise issue. They mentioned in an interview to giving blink and stoneskin to SCH, although we have the avatar versions so it's not that big of a deal.

You'd gain aspir, nothing to sneeze at, and Water II and Stone II nukes. Not bad, if you're going for damage in a party. If your party doesn't need barspells or status cures, it's definitely a possibility.

[Pteryx]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Indeed, the possibilities seem interesting. A reraise II hairpin solves the reraise issue. They mentioned in an interview to giving blink and stoneskin to SCH, although we have the avatar versions so it's not that big of a deal.

They didn't actually say SCH is getting Blink and Stoneskin. The way it's phrased, I personally suspect that they're going to give SCH something new instead. Also, reraise items do cost you, and are available to anyone anyway, even DRKs. -- Pteryx

[Bryn]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Well, when I solo, I use a reraise II hairpin, rather than Reraise I from my SJ. Trying to save as much xp as possible if something does go wrong. Money is easy enough to make.

Regardless, SCH seems pretty good when you don't need to worry about curing statuses.