So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

[Greyfist]

Thanks to the decision to have the weather-altering spells in the 40s, I can't see any sort of compelling reason for a Summoner to take Scholar as a support job. It'd suffer from the same defects as a Black Mage support job with low offensive magic skills crippling its ability to actually land spells on a target, and it wouldn't be appreciably superior to a White Mage support job on the buffs or heals. For all the noise Square made at the con about how SCH was a perfect caster support job, the abilities listed in the patch notes seem to be clear that that's far from the truth when it comes to the Summoners.

I had initially planned on hopping straight onto the Scholar bandwagon with thoughts of boosting avatar power by changing my 'personal weather' to match their element while still having most of the WHM's support ability. Once I found out that key ability would be forever out of reach of a support Scholar, however, my enthusiasm (and more importantly, my willingness to go through leveling another job to 37) curled up and died on the spot.

Can anyone see any sort of compelling advantage that a Scholar sub would offer a Summoner?

[Taskmage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Well, to be fair .. if everyone who wanted a weather modification effect on them could just sub sch for it, who would bother with mainjob sch?

I haven't really researched what's available to sch pre-37 yet, so I can't add anything else to the discussion.

[Kirsteena]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

SCH appears to be fairly useless as a sub for any job tbh.

[Taskmage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Hmm. Ok I looked over it and yeah it seems pretty utterly useless for smn. For other jobs, subjob access to Raise is pretty nice, plus stealth spells at lower level and Drain/Aspir as a bonus. I'll be happy to get Regen II when main healing as rdm/sch if I can do without Curaga. Cutting the mp cost or casting time of AMs isn't bad for blm. Half cast time on Stoneskin isn't bad either.

[Pteryx]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Well, to be fair .. if everyone who wanted a weather modification effect on them could just sub sch for it, who would bother with mainjob sch?

I was personally hoping for two tiers of weather spells -- single-weather versions that were pre-37, and double-weather versions that were post-37. That this isn't the case is indeed a letdown, though it doesn't kill its usefulness as a sub for the three basic mage jobs... just for SMN. Regen II doesn't really make up for it, IMO.

Of course, maybe we'll be surprised and Dark Arts will give a character with no native Dark/Enfeebling/Elemental Magic skill the equivalent of an E in each or something... but at this point I'm not holding my breath. -- Pteryx

[Rain_Blade]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Scholar's spells as a subjob:

4 - Stone
5 - Cure
8 - Water
10 - Protect, Deodorize
12 - Aero
16 - Fire
17 - Cure II
18 - Regen
20 - Shell, Sneak, Blizzard
21 - Drain
24 - Thunder
25 - Invisible
30 - Cure III, Protect II, Stone II
34 - Water II
35 - Raise
36 - Aspir
37 - Regen II

No Erase. No Poisona. No Reraise. No Bar- spells. No Shell II. No Stoneskin. No Dia or Dia II. No Blink. No AOE enhancing spells for that matter. No enfeebling spells (in terms of not being in exp party...Summoners don't have native enfeebling magic so it wouldn't help in exp party).

Basically, I don't think any job would sub this. Aspir and Regen II is nice, but that doesn't replace the importance of the spells I've mentioned above.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

White Mages and Black Mages would sub it purely for the Grimoire effects: White Mages to make their Healing spells better (and so they don't have to sub Black Mage), and Black Mages to make their nukes more potent (and so they don't have to sub White Mage . . . if they really don't want to).

For any Red Mages looking to sub it, especially all the ones who know the job as nothing but a backliner, and I mean all those who cringed when S-E stated their intent to move Red Mages to the front line: I personally think that they should just take Scholar and MAIN it, since they're so intent on being on the back line all the time.

. . . Sorry, just a side rant there.

Edit: yes, that means Red Mage is still my only passion. No Scholar for me.

[Pteryx]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

...OK, so I'm eating my words. They actually delivered on their promise of effective spells subbed, and how!:

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sch...-imminent.html

Despite the title, I doubt a nerf is imminent, given SE's stated goals with SCH as a subjob.

I can hardly believe it, but Rydia lives. -- Pteryx

[Karinya]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Unfortunately, a BLM/SCH won't actually have their nukes more potent... they will reduce MP cost by 10% though, stacking with their own native Conserve MP, so I guess that doesn't suck.

SMN/SCH probably won't get the benefit of Arts on their own spells. But they will get usable Aspir (on appropriate mobs), and still have decent single-target cures for 10% less MP (but no curaga, barspells, -na spells, erase, and many other spells they would have gotten from /WHM). The nukes are so low tier as to be basically useless, though; if you want to do magical damage, use a bloodpact.

[Lord Nat]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

I remember reading somewhere about how they planed to make the Light/Dark Arts change the effect of spells as well.
Such as making a -ga spell have wider range and other such effects.

I am hoping they do something like this to help Sch in coming updates as with out it the job seems a little pointless as a sub...

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

I am hoping they do something like this to help Sch in coming updates as with out it the job seems a little pointless as a sub...

Oh, I dunno... SMN/SCH will gain usable Drain and Aspir. In special fights where WHMs are available as dedicated healers, Aspir'ing MP for would seem very nice for SMNs. And, it can do that and still able to out emergency Cure III's or giving out Regen II's.

[Gwynn]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

I wouldn't say its a dud at all. Being able to land B-ranked Drain and Aspir on mobs isn't anything to sneeze at imho. You still get the healing spells, just miss out on barspells, status cures, curagas, blink, stoneskin and reraise primarily. That being said, /SCH will certainly be a situational sub, such as in a party where there is already a main healer and you are strictly needed in a back up heal capacity. The ability to do Drain and Aspir actually gives SMN the ability to do something useful against the mob with their MP on their own. I could definately see SCH as a useful solo subjob in certain areas, although losing reraise stoneskin and blink could be a death sentence for me with how crazy I get at times. A RDM/WHM and a SMN/SCH might work well together, with the SMN taking back up heals and Regen II.

[Evion]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

I believe Sub SCH will provide the best diversity of spells for any caster at 72+. Drain, Aspir, and Raise alone show it all...

[Akashimo]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

Uhg, if it wasn't for the items we need to unlock the job, i'd be leveling it by now just to try it as a solo sub on smn and rdm <.< >.>

[Taskmage]

Re: So SCH seems to be a dud as a SMN subjob.

It only costs 20k worth of rolanberries to quest the vellum. Get a friend or two to do a couple avatar fights with you and you're there.