Your thoughts on Summoner

[HairdewX]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

I really wish the auto-refresh tic wasn't used before -avatar perp. It would be nice to have that extra tic of MP, especially when you have more -perp than the cost of the avatar (carbuncle).

[Akashimo]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Or at least Auto-Refresh II as a merit job trait that gives us 2 mp a tick that staicks with Auto-Refresh, and a conserve mp trait for blood pacting.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Well, I feel like I repeat myself in a lot of threads like this, but meh it's my choice posting again anyhow. Well, in my opinion, Summoners have 3 setbacks. Perpetuation, Blood Pact Timers, and MP cost. Honestly, I can deal with the Blood Pact timers (except in Ballista). The perpetuation and MP cost only bothers me because we have BOTH. I feel like we should have one or the other. I know SE wants to balance the jobs like making each job have advantages and disadvantages, but sometimes I feel like they may go too far in really trying to balance things out in a way it's actually hurting the job.

Yeah, and I hear about some Blood Pacts not being cost efficient either. Sometimes you have to wonder, is it worth is to use Double Punch or are you better off sticking with auto-attack?

[Silent Howler]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Okay, changing topic. I've been doing a little thinking and I have one basic question...did they do Smn right?

I ask this because I'm not sure if they did go about it the right way. Looking at what they said about Pup in the job adjustments (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...12/detail.html) they seem to be turning Pup into the flexible pet job. And to a degree, that's kind of how I imagined Smn working. Either that, or the Support/DD job that it seemed to be designed to be.

But as most of us know, it is not uncommon to see Smn pulled into the Healing role, which is not what it was designed to play. At higher levels this doesn't happen as much, but even at this point, Smn still isn't playing the Support/DD role. In most cases, Smn is purely for Support. The common tactic Smn uses is "summon avatar, cast party buff, unsummon."

Looking at the history of Smn and the avatars...does "support" feel like the right role they should be playing in this game? I don't think so...

[Thoris]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

no we should be doing as much dmg or more then Blms. Not Gimp cure 3s

My auto heals me for 400 easy

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

I dunno. I've used (other people's) SMNs in party to SC and MB, to buff and heal.

Can't figure out how they can mainly DD before Lv.70; seen plenty of failed attempts, too. (I can't stand SMN's who spent their MP to leave Avatar out melee'ing and using attack BP's, but barely do more damage than a DRG's Wyvern.)

Also, I'm uneasy with SMN as single main healer, and much rather they have a co-healer to moved to backup healer role.

It takes effort to use SMN as more than a gimped WHM, and it's fault of parties and SMNs that they get shoved into that limited role. A SMN played well will assist with DD'ing, buffing, and curing, and is a beautiful to see, and is always in a hybrid role.

[Malacite]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Can't figure out how they can mainly DD before Lv.70; seen plenty of failed attempts, too. (I can't stand SMN's who spent their MP to leave Avatar out melee'ing and using attack BP's, but barely do more damage than a DRG's Wyvern.)

That's entirely SE's fault though. For a job that relies soley on it's pet you'd think that said pets would be worth the MP spent, but no. SMN is still horribly flawed at this point, and I'd like to know why SE hasn't done anything about it yet.

[Chubsmgee]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

you know what though? It all comes down to do you enjoy SMN? You can annalyze and constantly look over the details of how you got screwed in the pooch but over all SMN ispersonally one of my FAVORITE jobs! Wave your hands a little than *boom you have a huge A$$ waer dragon or wolf or whatever next to your side if that doesnt spell AWESOME than i dont knw what does...

[Malacite]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Yeah, 'cause playing WHM v.2 is ever so much fun...


I enjoy calling out the avatars and having them do stuff. Now it's up to SE to make that practical.

[Chubsmgee]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Yes thats true but u dont HAVE to play WHM V.2 if u dont WANT to its all up to wat u want to do

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

Yes thats true but u dont HAVE to play WHM V.2 if u dont WANT to its all up to wat u want to do

Pretty much everything in this game is based on decisions that you want to do. People want to seek party as Summoner, but most the majority of the time they're asked to heal. Some tend to just accept it because they believe it might get better in the later levels or they just want to get to 75 to see if they can really become accepted as a complete Summoner. People want to lead a party as a Summoner, but sometimes you will hae party members that will complain about the party's killing speed. They may also feel that the Summoner should heal or be replaced by another job that may help the party move faster.

So, Summoners are put into a tight spot where if they lead a party, the party members might leave because they feel they're not getting experience fast enough and if they seek a party, they'll mostly be asked to main heal.

Another thing is that you'll also still be able to use Wards to help the party. Although, Summoners (at least the ones I've talked to or seen opinions of) tend to want to use the full potential. SE explained what the Summoner can do and the players would expect "Hey, if this is what the job is meant to do, then I want to try this!" Sadly, it's not accepted by others and I can understand this. It's all about downtime and maintaining MP. We play with many people around the world and they may have limited time on their hands.

They'd expect themselves to get a party that can move at a steady pace or a fast pace (few people don't care what pace it is as long as they get experience). If a job doesn't fit into someone's else time to get the party going, then the person may be disappointed in that job. So once again, it all seems to be about usage of time and how much success you can get in that amount of time.

For the maintaining MP part, that's also apart of the downtime. Summoners have so much MP, but some people look at it and say it really doesn't matter because it can be drained in minutes if Summoner is being used at full potential (meaning avatar meleeing and doing Rage and Ward nonstop till mp is gone).

So it's like some Summoners love the job itself, but as they play the job, they understand the disadvantages it holds.

But why not heal? Why not keep the partying going? Why not help others? Simply because it sacrifices your own reason for playing the Summoner job and most of the time the reason is to play what SE says the Summoner job can do. As a WHM, I think it's fun since you have access to so many spells to help the party and you know what the job is intended to do. Smn/Whm, in my opinion, is not fun because you feel gimp and because of the previous reasons I've said.

These are just my thoughts. If anyone feels against what I said, I don't mind having a normal discussion about it.

Also, Chubsmgee, I'm not really attacking you. I'm just responding to what you said.

Edit: So basically, it's a love-hate kind of job that people can't get over.

[Bryn]

Re: Your thoughts on Summoner

The problem right now, is SMN is defined by it's support job. Fix the main job so the summoner is spending his time and mana doing effective things with their avatars, and only occasionally backup healing. They can main heal if needed, but it shouldn't be their only role leveling up.

So, Enspell damage, 2 extra BP commands (I'd go with Soothe and Cripple/Tetra), Auto Refresh II (you just get 2mp a tick), and more gear lower level that reduces perp cost, would be ideal. Honestly, AF should have had -perp cost on it.