What's the point of SMNs?

[ioshua]

I've read a bunch of forums, faqs, guides and flames and I don't get SMN. From what I can tell it's a mixed DD/Buff (mostly) class that is limited to what pet it has out at the time. If you want something else you have to drop and summon a new pet. I'm getting horrifying images of WoW's Warlock doing the same and, if you haven't played, it really interrupts combat flow. The impression I'm getting sounds patchy, cumbersome and inefficient.

Combine that with the perpetuation cost of pets and you're losing mana simply because you want to use abilities. I understand that there are items and merits that mitigate the cost but, for the majority of the levels, that's not an option. It's an especially unfriendly concept to totally broke, returning players. Combine that with the apparent requirement to ghetto-heal every pt and it seems like you're cutting out the mana you need to actually play a summoner and not just a two bit whm with a pointy hat.

My hope is that I'm getting a horrible impression of the job from a lot of forum negativity. I like the idea of a versatile class with a visually stunning presentation. I look at the summon spell list and there's a whole lot of abilities that I never see anyone talking about. The biggest of which is actually using attack abilities. The image presented is a so-so group buffer that can backup heal. The buffs, in favor of the SMN, are great along with BRD or COR but there seems to be so much more that's fallen by the wayside. Is that the truth of SMN, pretty weak and best relegated to buffs between heals?

If I'm wrong, please let me know. I've heard a lot of "yea, it solos well" and "you can maybe get groups as a healer" but I'd like to hear the good too. Not just "I soloed XYZ after 30 minutes" but the day-to-day triumphs as well.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

In all essence, players play SMN as a healer, especially 35-70. Because of this, you'll find that 99% of the party-going SMN's sub WHM, since that's the only way to heal effectively. Some will say that the MP pool SMN's get offsets the limited capacity to heal, compared to a WHM or RDM.

So, because of that mentality, perpetuation costs don't really come into play: you summon your avatar, do a blood pact (or 2, if you do an offensive and a defensive), release, and continue until the buffs wear off or the BP timer is up, whichever is longer in any case. Only in a very few parties (those that have a dedicated healer, IE WHM or RDM) will you have your avatar actually out as a DD, though that it personally the way I like to play. It's also the main reason I haven't gotten SMN past 34.


I think most of the time the only reason people bother to level it is because:
They want to be able to solo things.
The like the purple puppy.

[Akashimo]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

Only in a very few parties (those that have a dedicated healer, IE WHM or RDM) will you have your avatar actually out as a DD, though that it personally the way I like to play. It's also the main reason I haven't gotten SMN past 34.
I think most of the time the only reason people bother to level it is because:
They want to be able to solo things.
The like the purple puppy.

Completely agree 100% there =3
That and its fun to kite goblins and watch them go boom in Gustav Tunnel for 200 exp a pop. They should make a Fenrir collar just to act like Carby mitts, just for Fenny =x

Though..., its really annoying get parties that just don't get you're not lfg as a healer when your /seacom says it and then when you find the right party, healer leaves, dd comes to rep >_>;;

[Silent Howler]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

What's the point of SMN? That's kind of a difficult question to answer. Obviously, it is a job in the game because summoning has often played a role in the Final Fantasy series.

But as for what role they play, primarily damage dealer. Although occasionally they will be asked to play as the main or backup healer. And there are a few seasons for this. One is their very high MP pool. And two, they can afford to wear Mnd based equipment because their avatar's strength is not influenced by your Int, like BLM is.

There's one other thing I want to mention that makes SMN different from BLM. At higher levels, I believe BLM is able to out-damage SMN. But it comes at a price. When a BLM casts something like Blizzard IV on a monster, you do you think is going to catch the monster's eye? With SMN, on the other hand, there is little to no hate on the actual SMN. The monster focuses all its attention on the avatar and not you. And if the avatar dies, unlike jobs like DRG where you have to wait 20 minutes before you can call your little wyvern again, with SMN you only have to wait a few seconds.

SMN also has more control over your "pet" in comparison to other jobs. This also makes SMN one of the safest jobs to pull monsters. And I'm fine with pulling, except when the party wants fast pulling. Because to pull I need an avatar, to have an avatar I need MP, to have MP I need to rest. So if they want fast pulling, all I get to do is pull, rest, pull, rest, and I don't get to fight, basically. :/

But overall, I certainly have been enjoying the job and don't mind being the backup healer. (WHM is my other main job afterall. )

[Rain_Blade]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

I'm just gonna post what I love about smn from a thread I made:

1. I love having summons. I just love being able to summoner a summon by your side and use all kinds of spells.

2. Almost instant cast. As soon as we hit that BP, it'll use it in like 2-3 seconds which is very nice.

3. Free carby. Of course I'd love a free avatar. ^^

4. Our versatility. I love versatile jobs because you can choose from a list of roles of what you want to do.

5. The Damage and the BP looks. I love the damage and how the BPs look. ^^

6. Carby solo. This is just a great thing to do. It's nice finding our what a job CAN solo so that you can solo while looking for party.

7. The AF look. Others may disagree, but I think the AF looks hot. Lol.

8. Being able to still attack with your avatar. Although our melee sucks, I still do it. Lol. I don't do it in parties though.

9. We don't need to buy BP spells. I just love that... That saves me money. Although, fame-gaining makes up for that. Heh.

10. Our Mp pool. Isn't it nice looking at that large MP? Likewise for other job's HP.

11. Just the job itself. I just love it...JUST LOVE IT. ^^

*******************

It's a fun job regardless. All jobs may have their disadvantages, but from reading what you know, it's not really "like that." You've really just got to play the job to see what's up. Many people don't take summoner seriously as a job of it's own. They still take is as another healer with buffs. On the other hand, few people still see it as a fun job for Summoners to play and ppl DO give Summoner a chance in parties sometimes.

Most of the time you really will be a healer, but it's your choice to accept that. The main thing to do is make your own party with another healer to play your job happily. I've even seen people refuse main healing throughout all their Summoner levels. Sure it'll take a long while to get an invite as an ACTUAL Summoner, but people really don't care to go through that as long as they want to play their way. About the mana being drained, that's still a problem as well.

It's something a lot of summoners are against and want changed. A lot of people put their ideas on the forum to see if other players like them. If they think it's cool, then they'll send it to SE. If it's not, they'll just be degraded and may or may not send it to SE. Pretty much Mana is a issue to all mage jobs to struggle with. They may want Auto-Refresh, more MP, job abilities related to Auto-Refresh or Mp, etc. Getting on the topic of Rdm, they really do TRY to maintain their MP. They use enfeebles and they heal; moreover, there are very few times where they get to use their Tier spells.

Basically, all the jobs seem to still have "enough" of what's already in them to still play and have fun with. SE tries to balance every job to make it fair even though sometimes they might go a little overboard on what they want balanced.

[Malacite]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

I don't like what SE has done with SMN in FFXI to be honest. I much prefer the glory days of slaughtering wave after wave of mobs with mega flare or rebirth flame (which had the bonus of life 2 on all party members) or protecting/healing the party or instant death etc...


Somehow SMN just seemed to have more variety and a helluva lot more power (a better RDM if you will). So far, FFXI's system comes off to me as a poor rehash of FFX's system.


Now don't get me wrong; I love SMN, love the avatars and all that good stuff. I just think SE still has a lot of tweaking to do.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

The point of summoner is blood pacts and healing. Its honestly really, really sad what it is forced to become almost all throughout its career.

[Shadowneko]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

If you wana talk perpuation costs...well once a summoner hits lvl 50+ they can equip stuff to offset this. Someone mentioned free Carbuncle? This is a result of wearing such stat modifing gear XD

In fact gear + Refresh(RDM)/Mages Balad(Bard)/Evoker's Roll(Corsair)[or any combo of the 3 since they stack] a summoner can actually gain MP with certian avatars out.

Summoner in FFXI is a weird job...I mean you can try to DD, cast fun AoE buffs and sub WHM to gimp heal(I call it the THF[spike dammage BP style abit] of the mage set...we just get no respect!). In prevous games in the series...well Summoner was the ultimate one trick pony with the abilty to call monsters to hit for massive dammage/cast a buff(then the monster would dissapear). Some part of this exists in FFXI in the form of the 2 hr Job Ability "Astral Flow" but that is only used in certian situations and it lags after you get to the higher lvls....

[eticket109]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

At endgame SMNs are amazing. You'll notice KingOfZeal mentioned SMNs heal until 70? That's because at 70 the role of a SMN shifts squarely back into what it seems it should be, avatars. The blood pacts earned at 70+ are some of the strongest attacks in the game. Its common in a number of HNM fights to have SMNs deal a lot of the damage. As stated above, there are a lot of useful buffs available throughout a SMN's career, but they really start to shine at 70

[ioshua]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

Thanks for the replies. So it seems that SMN is a strong class with utility and power but enough issues, while leveling, that really cut into what is possible. Mix in the standard FFXI player job prejudice and it's a class that you really have to love to keep leveling.

Not what I was really hoping for but it is definitely not as dismal as it could be. Thanks again. ^^

[Eiyoko]

Re: What's the point of SMNs?

Summoner is a job class based on summoning avatars to act as many various rolls. The player database, however, tends to accept summoners as healers. Summoners can also solo, that is true. Overall, summoners are very, very versatile. Thing is, we hardly get much of a chance to utilize most of it. This is because there are not very many jobs that are easily accepted as main healers in most situations, so healers tend to be in demand - that means summoners tend to play healer a lot. That doesn't necessarily mean we can't do more than that, though.

Remember: The player makes the job, not the other way around. If anyone tells you "this and such is wrong with smn", keep in mind that the job is not at fault. It's all in how you play it, so play it well.