Above cap on SMN magic skill

[Neppy]

With the recent updates to SMN were if you are above your Summoner Mgaic Skill level cap you have increases in avatar acc, does this include both magic and physical blood pacts? If you do have increases with magical and physical acc with a cap + (number) is anyone else considering changing the merit path for SMN? Instead of meriting Magical and Physical ACC putting more merits into damage merits seems to be a better option now since a level 75 SMN can add quite a bit of +SMN skill gear. Thanks for any input and replies.

[Shirai]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

I have capped smn skill and currently have +32 in gear (Makes 301 total)
0 Merits in Summoning magic skill 3 in Avatar physical accuracy.

I have noticed quite some difference in accuracy on VT+ mobs and HNM when it comes to physical damage.
As for the magical I can't say at the moment.
Since the update I have noticed a lot less resists on my merit Blood pacts when it comes to higher level mobs.
(IE. Sky gods, sea gods, HNM etc.)
But also people with skill lower then cap noticed the same on those.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

Before the patch, I was part of the small minority of SMN who wanted to go in as "spirit SMN" in the endgame. Our merit path was usually something along the lines of Summoning Magic skill, Magic Acc +, and -Spirit Perpetuation. Usually 5 ranks in the last one, and a mix of the first two. In fact, the entire reason for this thread was to check if anyone with 300+ skill now had noticed simliar changes with regards to Acc, Magic Acc, and dmg with spirits that we were seeing in avatars post-patch. Still hoping I'm not the only poster on that thread when it finally drops down to the graveyard that is "page 2" of this board.

After the patch, it's seeming that 300 is the sweet spot or "soft cap" for summoning magic skill. This is similar to the soft cap for the first 4 Cure spells where once you hit 30, 90, 180, and 360 on each of them, piling on more +MND gear is kind of a waste of a gear slot, since you get so little return for it. Right now, it seems the best results are achieved as you reach or break 300 skill in Summoning magic. Beyond that, I'm not seeing a test result that would really justify wasting the slot. If the same holds true for spirits, than those SMN who plan on going my route will probably not bother meriting Summoning Magic either. Right now, I'm using Titan on the same pots in sky I've been levelling on previous to the patch, he hits slightly more often and for a decent bit more damage. The only real difference between before and after was I went back to town for my Evoker's Ring and Summoner's Torque to replace Electrum Ring and Fenrir's Torque, which puts me about 11 points over my summoning magic cap for lvl 71. I'm seeing the same increased results for a Tier IV nuke from my avatars, (no Diabolos yet), meaning the improvement seems to impact both Acc skills.

With that in mind, I really wouldn't suggest meriting either Summoning Magic skill or Avatar melee/magic accuracy. It's just not looking as yet like they'll make as big of an impact on the types of battles we get into with our linkshells as they did before the patch. 300 Summoning Magic is really easy to reach without merits now, (if I go an entire hour without at least 1 whole point of skillups, it's time to call in some conspiracy theorists). Also, that 300 number seems to be more important than all the merited abilities used to be. If you're going to be using avatars almost exclusively, I'd suggest following Shirai's lead with the Damage merits. If you're going to go spirits, definitely still go with the old -Spirit Perp merits, but hold off til we can finally get some decent testing for the others.

[Neppy]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

To be honest the reason I posted this was because if SMN magic skill has enhanced magical ACC of avatars I was going to get rid of what ACC merits I have done so far (which isnt many to be honest) and put them evenly into both DMG slots and spirit perp. I do see the value of spirits which some SMNs dont, not all, but some. If all it takes is adding SMN skill items to enhace both ACC's then it seems to free up alot of SMN merits for areas that would benefit the most from having a high SMN skill.

[Shirai]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

To add, I'm meriting avatar accuracy to 5 and I want to finish taking avatar attack up to 5. (1 now)

As Kitalrez sais I'm not sure yet if I am gonna merit summoning magic, maybe I will.
I just want to do more testing on the buffs usually use like Ecliptic Growl and Hastega.
Those are handy in regular exp parties.
Next to that I 'd like to see the test results of those that have smn skill far over 300 by either merits or more gear.

I myself am an avatar summoner and only use Light spirit for personal buffs.

@ Kitalrez,
You will probably never see Nether blast do more then 508 damage @ 75 except for exceptional darksday/weather bonuses or if you add Dream Shroud to it.
Dream Shroud however does not make a real difference, most I've gotten with that is about 50 extra damage but usually around 7/10 more.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

@ Kitalrez,
You will probably never see Nether blast do more then 508 damage @ 75 except for exceptional darksday/weather bonuses or if you add Dream Shroud to it.
Dream Shroud however does not make a real difference, most I've gotten with that is about 50 extra damage but usually around 7/10 more.

Yeah, this is the lesser of two reasons I haven't bothered to pick up my server's namesake yet. Unless someone really works on me to do Dynamis again, I probably won't have much use for him just yet. (If I'm going to Dynamis, I'm Nightmare-pulling, I don't trust any of you weird little THFs and RNGs to get it right). Other than that, I don't have much use for Phalanx, Dream Shroud, or Nether Blast in my day-to-day.

The main reason has to do with my feelings on HNMLSs in general. I realize I almost need one for the MNK, BLM, SAM, and RDM/DRK contacts I'd probably need to finish the big guy off. I had enough endgame guild experience in Everquest to convince me I had better things to do with my free time, and my HNMLS experience in this game was mostly PhoenixPinion of Diabolos, which I lasted all of 2 weeks in. I guess that has to do more with whichever moron had access to Bogar's account when I was online during that period. I am however, of Irish/Serb/Croat/Swede decent, and when you're thinking to yourself: "Gee, who can I get to carry a pointless grudge for several hundred years..."

You probably get the idea already, but I guess that unless Diabolos suddenly started floating around handing out icecream to kiddies, currying favor for his master with fair maidens, and farting Refreshga on command, I'm not likely to develop a major need for his services anytime soon. At least not a need that would overcome my current objections. So, other than possibly Diabolos which I still lack, I'm not seeing an avatar that truly "needs" full accuracy merits anymore. I can get Titan to hit mobs 7 levels higher than me pretty regularly and for full damage without meriting, although I can say from experience that this is really not the best way to beat a Groundskeeper in Ru'Aun.

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

My merits have been -5 elemental avatar perpetuation, +5 avatar magical accuracy for over a year now. Even with all that my magical bloodpcats and spirit magic still got resisted fairly often against certain mobs. Since the update they tend to be a lot more successful. I had the enjoyment of spamming slowga in dynamis a couple of weeks ago and watched every single mob it hit get slowed. Usually about half of them resisted it. I carry 323 skill on me but can go up to 330 if i get the other 2 items from my storage. Skill seems to effect magical accuracy as well as physical. A lot of times i found no matter how much accuracy you have the game always gives you a built in chance that you can miss. This cannot be eliminated by stacking on more accuracy, so its best to try to exploit another enemy weakness. Sometimes evasion is just too high or its not practical, which is why we got the new bloodpacts and a boost to overall accuracy through skill in the last update.

[Shirai]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

My merits have been -5 elemental avatar perpetuation, +5 avatar magical accuracy for over a year now. Even with all that my magical bloodpcats and spirit magic still got resisted fairly often against certain mobs. Since the update they tend to be a lot more successful. I had the enjoyment of spamming slowga in dynamis a couple of weeks ago and watched every single mob it hit get slowed. Usually about half of them resisted it. I carry 323 skill on me but can go up to 330 if i get the other 2 items from my storage. Skill seems to effect magical accuracy as well as physical. A lot of times i found no matter how much accuracy you have the game always gives you a built in chance that you can miss. This cannot be eliminated by stacking on more accuracy, so its best to try to exploit another enemy weakness. Sometimes evasion is just too high or its not practical, which is why we got the new bloodpacts and a boost to overall accuracy through skill in the last update.

With the new merit Blood pacts I actually feel even less for using elemental spirits then I did before.
I've tried (Note only pre-patch) some elementals on several mob types from EXP mobs to sea gods,
my biggest beef isn't perpetuation cost but that they can't be controlled.
Also after seeing Tier IV spells and the like get resisted to meager 2 digit numbers where the Merit BPs do 3 to 4 Digit numbers on mobs depending on MB/Avatar TP/day/weather discouraged me greatly in using Spirits.
Also that it can take 50% or more of my MP pool before it casts the spell I want it to cast isn't encouraging.

With extreme evasion or kited mobs these days I can resort to either Nether Blast and Merit BPs these days with enough choice depending on Monster's elemental weaknesses.
I can also land MB's with those while spirits really depend on the luck of what they cast and if they cast during a skillchain.

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

I just keep spirits in use now because the merit bloodpacts are still more expensive than 5-8 spirit spells for me and they just seem to drain my mp way too fast. Looking at the damage on them unbursted, i've only been motivated to use them to magic burst with. If i have full mp i go with merit bloodpacts, but at 50% mp or lower i always resort to spirit for magic. Usually spirit will have a cycle of AM>>> tierIV>>> enfeeble>>> tierIV >>>> repeat.

I'm still trying to find more time to play and do more stuff post patch because school and work have been killing me lately. @_@'

[Likibiki]

Re: Above cap on SMN magic skill

Over a 3 hour Dyna-Beauc session, Rush consistently outdamaged Predator Claws/Flaming Crush/Ramuh's (I forget the name).
My skill is 240.
Rush was doing 600-900 every time, and I must have used it at least 40 times.