Summoner Update

[Hellrazzor]

Re: Summoner Update

i thought it would be the 15th but ..

[SharMarali]

Re: Summoner Update

In parties I don't get to summon much at all, occasionally a Carby for healing Ruby II.

This really surprises me. Please don't think I'm bashing or whatever, I'm honestly not. I'm just surprised by the number of SMNs I've talked to (or PTed with as RDM) who don't summon at all in PTs.

I guess this is why so many SMNs have issue with being asked to main heal.

Personally, I was only ever in ONE PT where summoning wasn't much of an option. It was this really rotten PT that some moron put together when I was level 58. If I recall correctly, the backline consisted of me and a BRD. I don't exactly remember what the frontline was, but I DO remember that none of them were especially good at their jobs, resulting in long fights, crazy mixed-up hate, and a lot of damge done to everybody. After about 10 minutes I decided that summoning wasn't going to work and I just sat back and played cure III WHM. Only time I ever did it. And I wasn't ASKED to do it. I realized it was the only thing I COULD do.

Every single other PT I was in, I played buffing SMN and summoned every 1-3 minutes, depending on how badly I needed MP. And I PTed in random, pick-up PTs with fairly standard setups. Very rarely did I play in an all SMN or BLM & SMN PT.

And that's why it's always confused me so much that SMNs constantly complain about being asked to heal. But I'm discovering that a lot of SMNs, for whatever reason, haven't done this at all and they view PTing as a place where they're asked to keep their avatars in check and cast cures. I find that very unfortunate.

It also explains to me a lot of the comments I got from PTs while I was leveling. I had a lot of people tell me things like "I never realized how much a summoner could really support the PT." And my thought in response to that was "Man, has this guy never PTed with a SMN before?"

To be honest, I think it's a lack of experimentation and communication that creates this problem. I do think it's a big problem if the SMN feels they're not allowed to summon and the PTs assume they're not going to. In 75 levels of SMN, I never once had anyone tell me to stop summoning, and I almost always played main healer. But I guess that's just my experiences and they seem to be fairly different from everyone else's. >_>

[Karinya]

Re: Summoner Update

I'm kind of surprised, I would think that hate bouncing around would make Aerial Armor, Earthen Ward and Spring Water *more* necessary. All of those could be much more MP efficient than curing one person at a time, if damage is being split between multiple people.

But I think most people who actually know how to build parties realize that almost all parties should have a WHM or RDM, and asking a SMN instead of those jobs, rather than in addition to those jobs, is a last resort at best. It's not that they *can't* perform well in that role, but it's really not playing to their strengths. A few BLMs will help out with status cures and between-battle heals, but you can't rely on that (as a PT leader) unless you know the BLM personally, because it is unfortuantely quite rare.

4 melee, SMN, BRD is almost doomed to fail, even if the melees are good.

[Shirai]

Re: Summoner Update

This really surprises me. Please don't think I'm bashing or whatever, I'm honestly not. I'm just surprised by the number of SMNs I've talked to (or PTed with as RDM) who don't summon at all in PTs.

I guess this is why so many SMNs have issue with being asked to main heal.

Personally, I was only ever in ONE PT where summoning wasn't much of an option. It was this really rotten PT that some moron put together when I was level 58. If I recall correctly, the backline consisted of me and a BRD. I don't exactly remember what the frontline was, but I DO remember that none of them were especially good at their jobs, resulting in long fights, crazy mixed-up hate, and a lot of damge done to everybody. After about 10 minutes I decided that summoning wasn't going to work and I just sat back and played cure III WHM. Only time I ever did it. And I wasn't ASKED to do it. I realized it was the only thing I COULD do.

Every single other PT I was in, I played buffing SMN and summoned every 1-3 minutes, depending on how badly I needed MP. And I PTed in random, pick-up PTs with fairly standard setups. Very rarely did I play in an all SMN or BLM & SMN PT.

And that's why it's always confused me so much that SMNs constantly complain about being asked to heal. But I'm discovering that a lot of SMNs, for whatever reason, haven't done this at all and they view PTing as a place where they're asked to keep their avatars in check and cast cures. I find that very unfortunate.

It also explains to me a lot of the comments I got from PTs while I was leveling. I had a lot of people tell me things like "I never realized how much a summoner could really support the PT." And my thought in response to that was "Man, has this guy never PTed with a SMN before?"

To be honest, I think it's a lack of experimentation and communication that creates this problem. I do think it's a big problem if the SMN feels they're not allowed to summon and the PTs assume they're not going to. In 75 levels of SMN, I never once had anyone tell me to stop summoning, and I almost always played main healer. But I guess that's just my experiences and they seem to be fairly different from everyone else's. >_>

I agree it is very different per party, I also had a lot of parties where I healed but also had the option to summon and occasionally use a Blood pact.

However in most parties I have these days (Endgame levels) people just want to burn through stuff in Aht uhrgan areas while roaming through the entire zone to kill stuff on and on, back to back non stop.
This gives me very little time to rest if I'm invited to main heal and summoning out avatars to use Blood pacts is an extra drain on my MP pool, especially if people don't sub Ninja and pull off hate a lot in those kind of parties.

Believe me it's not all parties and there are a few where I can summon out and throw in Earthen wards, Fenrir buffs and an occasional DD Blood pact.
Still most parties I get I do not get a chance, especially in the case of roaming burn parties.
It's one of the main reasons I dislike main healing on summoner a lot and exp either solo or in all summoner parties.

But then again each party is different and has different mechanics.

[Hellrazzor]

Re: Summoner Update

O.o u think its the 18th??? it didnt say anyhting about it but it is a update after all

[Shirai]

Re: Summoner Update

Yup, we can asume this next maintenance is our big update.

I've tried to cap summoning skill before that but got stuck at 266.4.
Ah well, time to sleep now and I'll see after the update if that last bit has indeed become a bit easier to skill up.

[framerate]

Re: Summoner Update

Yup, we can asume this next maintenance is our big update.
I've tried to cap summoning skill before that but got stuck at 266.4.
Ah well, time to sleep now and I'll see after the update if that last bit has indeed become a bit easier to skill up.

I got to 207 ; ; (from like 173, so that's good!)

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Summoner Update

I wonder. This update means that summoners will be able to skill up more often, but that doesn't necessarily mean easier. If they don't give the skill a higher skillup rate, it will take just as long, just be less boring.

[Neppy]

Re: Summoner Update

I wonder. This update means that summoners will be able to skill up more often, but that doesn't necessarily mean easier. If they don't give the skill a higher skillup rate, it will take just as long, just be less boring.

Exactly! I do have to admit I like these changes and Im very curious how the SMN job will be effected at lower levels. My SMN job is 75 so I won't be able to experiemce SMN at lower lvls unless I decide to do it on a mule (no thnx). I dont see how this is addressing the 'we want to make it more beneficial for SMN to leave their avatars out', only thing that would make it more beneficial would be faster TP gain or perp cost adjustments.

I do see farming being more then just gilz beneficial now for SMNs. Being able to skill up SMN skill by using BPs is a really nice idea. Head out to where ever you farm use your fav avatar and spam the lowest mp cost dmg BP, then unsummon and resummon before you kill the next mob maybe. At 75 I farm a ton of spider webs in the thickets outside Aht Urgan off attercops. W/ a lvl 82 cloth skill i make them into rainbow thread and cloth. I usually sub thf for SA, summon fenrir, use cresent fang to para the mob, and when I have tp I SA+Spirit Taker which pretty much gives me a free fenrir (staff skill @ 235) The nice bonus to this is Ive almost merited twice and have made 1.6mil in doing this, cant wait til I see "Fenrir uses Cresent Fang" "Neppy's Summoner Skill goes up 0.3"

[Shirai]

Re: Summoner Update

Haha, tormented myself for hours, but post update I have some real testing to do for all of you, and myself of course.

[Neppy]

Re: Summoner Update

I think any and all +Summoner magic skill items are going to get a lil bit more pricey, wouldnt be surprised if the austere set gets close to what it was over the x-mas time frame, well......maybe not that much. Get that stuff now before you have to pay 3x as much at the AH.

[Omniblast]

Re: Summoner Update

I guess I'll keep my summoning magic low so I can be your guniea pig tester for low / uncapped summoning magic.

I have 238 summoning magic right now, I think. Or something like that. Please make sure you remember to remove items that cause damage to be different i.e. summoner's pigachues, evoker's ring, etc. as well as summoner's accuracy.

Best way to test is without any items, then slowly start equiping items 1 at a time. To test damage as well as effects of spells, i.e. Rolling Thunder, Dream Shroud + Nether Blast.

I also think we should pick a common enemy to kill.
I find those Aht Urhgan spiders outside Al Zhabi fairly easy, yet challenging in a long battle.

So basic format should be:
Enemy:
Summoning Magic:
Additional Equipment:
Blood Pact:

I think I should make a new post for just this format...

[Hellrazzor]

Re: Summoner Update

O.o im lvl 67 atm and like 80 lvls behind my cap better than last time i think it was 100 somthing before and yea 18th is big update yaayy

[Hellrazzor]

Re: Summoner Update

anyone do more dmg or somthing with the new update?

[Omniblast]

Re: Summoner Update

go check the other post PUTT http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sum...read-putt.html