So what happened to changing smn...

[Djonma]

SE raved on about changes they were going to make to every job bar Nin.
SMN; they wanted us to have our avatars out permanently, rather than bringing them out for a BP and immediately releasing.

So... umm... what happened?

[forster]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

There's a topic like this every week.

Job changes will be rolled out in future patches, not all at once.

So hold your horses and enjoy the now, instead of spending all your time waiting for what is to come.

[Djonma]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Ahh, I thought that the majority of the changes would be in this patch.

So, pld, whm and blm done.
Wonder when they're doing the rest.

[framerate]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Ahh, I thought that the majority of the changes would be in this patch.

So, pld, whm and blm done.
Wonder when they're doing the rest.

hmm I know this "Tweaked" PLD... and they added new abilities for WHM and BLM... but they added new SMN abilities too? So how is "WHM and BLM" *done* ?

[nanatsu]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

They added new merit point abilities to every job. In no way have they siad they were done adjusting any job. They just gave everyone meritpoint abilities and traits at lvl 75 and added a couple new spells for brd and drk. You'll just have to be patient for the rest of the adjustments.

[Djonma]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Whm they changed the 2 hour.

That seemed to be all they did.

The change they said they were doing to blm was the magic nerf.
They've done that.

[Darkhound]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

They DID say that they did not like the current trend of summoners, calling avatars, doing a blood pact, then releasing. I am pretty sure they will fix that in future patches! Lets just be patient!

[Mhurron]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Yep, I don't think the Merit additions were the job balances they promised. Also, no where did they say PLD and WHM were done either.

[Darkhound]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

I agree. I will have to admit, that IN MY PERSONAL case, wind blade did not impressed me that much. Then again, it is too early to tell, but I was honestly expecing something a bit stronger by itself!

[Kitalrez]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Yeah, this is a pretty small step in the direction of updating all the jobs, not the last word in any respect. S-E takes a what I would characterize as "typically Japanese" approach to updating:
1. They start with an idea of where they'd like things to go.
2. Make a few small changes in that direction.
3. Wait to see how it shakes down.
4. Correct any glaring errors that contradict their original idea.
5. Make a few more changes in the same direction.
6. Wait and repeat.

Contrast this with what Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive did in the first two years with Everquest patches, what I would consider a "typically American" approach:
1. Start with an overall view of every job in the game and how it should function in the game world. Call it "The Vision"TM, and share it with no one.
2. Make a major change during the scheduled update, which is not announced prior to this. These changes may or may not be in-line with "The Vision"TM, because let's face it, we have no way of knowing either way.
3. Stick hard to your guns that every change you made was necessary and beneficial to the evolution of the game.
4. Wait for a flood of confused/frustrated GM calls and CS complaints.
5. When flood becomes overwhelming, possibly reconsider the changes implemented.
6. Either tell everyone "tough beans", or roll back the entire patch.

With this model, you got lovely patch scenarios like:
1. Patch updates Necromancer and Bard classes, rendering 50% of their spells either uncastable, or so greatly reduced (nerfed), that they're no longer worth casting.
2. Spend a week cleaning up the mess as 90% of these two jobs get themselves and half the rest of the zone they're in killed as they attempt to solo or group.
3. Release the most sarcasting-sounding apology possible, and roll back the patch.

-or-

1. Update the entire Necromancer class's pet line to render them completely incapable of exping while AFK.
2. Overdo it so badly that Necro pets are killed within 3 hits by most monsters.
3. Announce that Necros will have to utilize their other spells in party, because you're not changing it back.
4. Respond to concerned Necro posts that they don't actually have any other party-usable spell lines with the knowledge that they'll be getting them in the next two expansions, coming out next year.
5. Finally give in and strengthen pets somewhat, but declare that you're putting them back just as soon as those expansions ship.

I look on S-E's method of updating the same way I look at Russia's transition to democracy. It may not be remotely perfect, but it beats what came before in most of the key areas that matter to the people on the ground. As much as people complain about the BST update, it had nothing on what SOE did to most of us during the first two years of Everquest. There were whole spell lines that went from being completely necessary to the job one week, to being either worthless or uncastable the next.

[Darkhound]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Little off topic but very informative!
I think, i will not unlock more final blood pacts untill I see more results out there!

[Omniblast]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Yeah, this is a pretty small step in the direction of updating all the jobs, not the last word in any respect. S-E takes a what I would characterize as "typically Japanese" approach to updating:
1. They start with an idea of where they'd like things to go.
2. Make a few small changes in that direction.
3. Wait to see how it shakes down.
4. Correct any glaring errors that contradict their original idea.
5. Make a few more changes in the same direction.
6. Wait and repeat.

Contrast this with what Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive did in the first two years with Everquest patches, what I would consider a "typically American" approach:
1. Start with an overall view of every job in the game and how it should function in the game world. Call it "The Vision"TM, and share it with no one.
2. Make a major change during the scheduled update, which is not announced prior to this. These changes may or may not be in-line with "The Vision"TM, because let's face it, we have no way of knowing either way.
3. Stick hard to your guns that every change you made was necessary and beneficial to the evolution of the game.
4. Wait for a flood of confused/frustrated GM calls and CS complaints.
5. When flood becomes overwhelming, possibly reconsider the changes implemented.
6. Either tell everyone "tough beans", or roll back the entire patch.

With this model, you got lovely patch scenarios like:
1. Patch updates Necromancer and Bard classes, rendering 50% of their spells either uncastable, or so greatly reduced (nerfed), that they're no longer worth casting.
2. Spend a week cleaning up the mess as 90% of these two jobs get themselves and half the rest of the zone they're in killed as they attempt to solo or group.
3. Release the most sarcasting-sounding apology possible, and roll back the patch.

-or-

1. Update the entire Necromancer class's pet line to render them completely incapable of exping while AFK.
2. Overdo it so badly that Necro pets are killed within 3 hits by most monsters.
3. Announce that Necros will have to utilize their other spells in party, because you're not changing it back.
4. Respond to concerned Necro posts that they don't actually have any other party-usable spell lines with the knowledge that they'll be getting them in the next two expansions, coming out next year.
5. Finally give in and strengthen pets somewhat, but declare that you're putting them back just as soon as those expansions ship.

I look on S-E's method of updating the same way I look at Russia's transition to democracy. It may not be remotely perfect, but it beats what came before in most of the key areas that matter to the people on the ground. As much as people complain about the BST update, it had nothing on what SOE did to most of us during the first two years of Everquest. There were whole spell lines that went from being completely necessary to the job one week, to being either worthless or uncastable the next.

Looks like someone had a bad Evercrack experience.

[Maju]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

I think this patch was possibly meant to be the THF adjustment patch and they just happened to have the merit update in it as well. The THF class didn't get any changes, but daggers in general were greatly improved and Evisceration was also buffed. Oh and DRK got Abosrb TP and seems like it's huge.

I look on S-E's method of updating the same way I look at Russia's transition to democracy. It may not be remotely perfect, but it beats what came before in most of the key areas that matter to the people on the ground. As much as people complain about the BST update, it had nothing on what SOE did to most of us during the first two years of Everquest. There were whole spell lines that went from being completely necessary to the job one week, to being either worthless or uncastable the next.

Let's take a look at how Blizzard does it:

Warrior community: The top players of other classes ruin us in duels! Give us more anti-CC abilities! We can't even damage half of the other classes!

Blizzard's response: Let's nerf warrior damage output!

Also:

The raiding community: Horde is gimped and Alliance reigns supreme in just about any raid encounter. Fix the shaman vs paladin imbalance in raids!

Blizzard's response: Let's boost shaman healing ability!

The raiding community: Healing was never the issue! Paladin buffs own the crap out of shaman buffs! Fix buffs, not healing!

Blizzard: Windfury Totem (the only shaman buff that isn't simply a nerfed version of a paladin blessing) nerf incoming!

*The raiding community gains enrage*

Blizzard: We take that back! WF Totem will not be nerfed after all! Instead we will remove faction uniqueness by allowing Horde to roll paladins and the Alliance to roll shamans in our coming expansion! Imbalance fixed!

Or how about the AQ fiasco?

The raiding community: C'thun (last boss of the Ahn'Qiraji instance) is unbeatable and bugged to hell!

Blizzard: It's working as intended, you just suck.

The raiding community: Guilds A, B, C, D.... and Z have promised to quit if C'thun isn't fixed by date XX.

Blizzard: We've found some unintended features in the C'thun encounter and fixed them. Go us!

[Kitalrez]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

Looks like someone had a bad Evercrack experience.

You don't know the half of it, the first two years of Evercrack patches made hitting yourself in the face repeatedly with a hot waffle iron start to look appealing. Sad part was I never played Bard or Necro in Everquest, and I still thought that was a little heavy-handed when the patch rolled out.

Nice to see how Blizzard is reinforcing my point about American style patching. We seem to take on the "fix the loose nail with a sledgehammer" approach to imbalance. We also seem to have a very arrogant approach when it comes to any complaints about our work. I'm not sure what's so bad about admitting you screwed up the last update and promising to fix it.

[Darkhound]

Re: So what happened to changing smn...

ok ok guys, lets try not to go of oof track.

why dont we just keep testing the new blood pacts and share our results!