Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

[framerate]

What abilities would/could phoenix get to be added to our arsenal by SE?

I see a light fire element damage spell that adds some kinda of status ailment/party buff at a lower level.... perhaps one of each.

I also see some sort of "raise-ga" (perhaps that does fire damage to take hate like in FFVII) but this would definitely have to be Phoenix's Astral Flow ability, as I don't think we could get a raise-ga (MAYBE reraisega at like lvl 70?) without causing some major balance issues...

Thoughts?

(edit: yes I'm aware there is no proof we'll get this avatar. I'm only making this post in speculation since she IS mentioned in CoP and FFXI lore so has a higher chance of being in there as opposed to most avatars)

[Kazuki]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Astral Flow would probably be Redemption, which would be very broken.

[Ryddr]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

What would be wrong with a raisaga? As long as it doesn't live up to the mighty R3 it's not much to worry about (balance-wise). RDM can already chainspell+raise+raise+raise blah blah and in that way raise an entire party in seconds. Raisaga isn't too far out, especially for an Astral Flow.

[DakAttack]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Well, the whole idea behind Phoenix is creation born from destruction, so I would assume something negative would have had to take place before the Phoenix could do something positive, or the abilities would be a trade off. Something like Slow becomes Haste, Poison becomes Regen, Defense Down becomes Defense Up, etc, etc. Of course there would have to be a lot of limitations, but it could work, and it might be that edge Summoners need where they can finally be realized as more than just improvised healers.

[Kazuki]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

What would be wrong with a raisaga? As long as it doesn't live up to the mighty R3 it's not much to worry about (balance-wise). RDM can already chainspell+raise+raise+raise blah blah and in that way raise an entire party in seconds. Raisaga isn't too far out, especially for an Astral Flow.

It's not there's something wrong with it. It's that in game things already hint otherwise. Reraisega sounds more like a pact we'd have and it wouldn't need to be a 2hr as BRD has a RR song.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Raisega does have some "breaking" points even if it were Raise 1. In HNM/Sky, etc., you don't see that much of a difference because RDM could do the same effective thing if you really wanted it to. Plus, Raisega would likely be a party-only affect (not alliance) which severely limits its use.

Even in promies and other level cap events you aren't really on a timer per-se and so it really isn't that big of a deal (except in BC but even then raisega isn't likely to make or break, as chances are you'd rather astral flow for the win anyhow).

Where you start to see the breakage, however, is in places like Dynamis where a party wipe is the difference between winning and loosing miserablly. The fact is, these events are supposed to be very hard and require ungodly ammounts of unity, cooperation, and good party dynamics. Being able to wipe once or twice and still win with a smaller group (because you are now elimitinating the time it takes to individually raise everyone) makes things like relic even more accesable. And that's something SE doesn't want.

Other than dynamis though i can't see it as an issue.

[Kazuki]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Most people in Dynamis should be using RR items anyway.

[framerate]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Astral Flow would probably be Redemption, which would be very broken.

I'm sorry, but what is Redemption? >.>

[Rostum]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Well, the whole idea behind Phoenix is creation born from destruction, so I would assume something negative would have had to take place before the Phoenix could do something positive, or the abilities would be a trade off. Something like Slow becomes Haste, Poison becomes Regen, Defense Down becomes Defense Up, etc, etc. Of course there would have to be a lot of limitations, but it could work, and it might be that edge Summoners need where they can finally be realized as more than just improvised healers.

I think this is a very cool idea.

[Ruz]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Using phoenix as a healing avatar is interesting but it should be very hard to obtain with blood pacts like raisga or raisega II, much harder then Diabolos or Fenrir.

Other abilities like a reraisega would be nice but theseshould be balanced out.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Raisega does have some "breaking" points even if it were Raise 1. In HNM/Sky, etc., you don't see that much of a difference because RDM could do the same effective thing if you really wanted it to. Plus, Raisega would likely be a party-only affect (not alliance) which severely limits its use.

Even in promies and other level cap events you aren't really on a timer per-se and so it really isn't that big of a deal (except in BC but even then raisega isn't likely to make or break, as chances are you'd rather astral flow for the win anyhow).

Where you start to see the breakage, however, is in places like Dynamis where a party wipe is the difference between winning and loosing miserablly. The fact is, these events are supposed to be very hard and require ungodly ammounts of unity, cooperation, and good party dynamics. Being able to wipe once or twice and still win with a smaller group (because you are now elimitinating the time it takes to individually raise everyone) makes things like relic even more accesable. And that's something SE doesn't want.

Other than dynamis though i can't see it as an issue.

I'm kinda wondering if you've ever played the other FF games... Phoenix does damage as well as raising the party, I'm sure if they made it the Astral Flow for Phoenix i'm certain it would do some 1/2 decent dmg while giving a raisega type effect.

[Revitozu]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Meh, Phoenix would be very cool. Just some cool fantasies on the 2hour:

Spirits: Raise party members within AoE without weakened status.

Meh, I just really think that 'Weakened' thing is dumb. @_@ Maybe it would raise them in very low HP to balance it out? I don't know, but I think a raisega type move would be awesome. :0

[Kazuki]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

I'm sorry, but what is Redemption? >.>

It's Selh'teus's "2hr" in the fight against Promathia. It refills hp/mp/tp completely. When he uses it he says something Phoenix related...too much battle spam for me to even read clearly.

Phoenix would be a great avatar to have and all, and while I do like a lot of peoples' ideas on her, we need to realize how the storyline would restrict obtaining her. Her quest would probably be post-ZM and CoP, and I'm not sure SE would even want to make players go through all of that just for another spell to add to their list. Then again, BLU does get sea magic...

[KitaKaze]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

*Spoilers*

In CoP it said pheonix's spirit was shattered and the Eastern empire forged a piece into Tenzen's blade. If they were to implement pheonix, I would see a quest involving finding the rest of her and restoring her somewhere. Possibly cradle of rebirth

[Kametame]

Re: Phoenix as an Avatar (speculation)

Don't forget that Tenzen came from the Far East. We've just barely scratched the surface of the Near East, so it may be a while.