Avatar Speculation and You

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

That's hilarious. Almost as hilarious as WHMs wielding bows. However, I think you would need to provide more evidence on that claim, because I simply don't believe it.

In just about every "adjustment" thread you cook up, there's something with damage mitigation. In that legendary Subtle Blow discussion, you were quick to point out RDM/NIN with a dagger can Enspell something to death without TPing it and highlighted SB's benefits with MNKs duoing mobs in Salvage. These are rather limited situations. Oh and you want RDM to get Plague.

Now you want Refreshga? We have three jobs with the buff, three jobs with an auto refresh trait, two jobs with native aspir, Sanction, the signet adjustment refresh gear, +hMP gear, Healer's Roll, juice and cookies.

I don't think we need more refresh, +hMP or foods, but new methods of giving out MP or curing. A tool based Chemist, for example, would alliviate all kinds of MP issues. Plus, refreshga would simply overwrite refresh and why shaft RDM on one of the remaining exclusives it has? Diabolos already lifted Phalnax.

Ideally, depending on which direction one would take it, SMN would have the option to play a support who can throw out spike damage. This would be very taxing, but still would allow cures to be thrown out. If they could be turned into better support and have a way to pay for their avatars being out/constantly using BPs, then they will be busy enough between summons.

I think if they were to change the system at this point, there would be a major catch to it. They could do it like they did in FFVII and other games where you could only summon a summon so many times in a set period. For the sake of FFXI, we could say, that you could summon Garuda so many times on a particular day at no cost, but limit it to a few times a day.

Another option could be to keep the cost, but let an Avatar be cost free on its own day. While this wouldn't be as perfect a solution, its makes a little more sense given the existing design. Windsday is when Garuda's powers are at their peak, a SMN could keep here out at no cost and attend to thier other duties without straining MP too hard.

There is nothing concrete. It's possible, but not certain. Assuming there will be another ToAU update in late October, the update that introduces WotG will be timed normally and be no different than the average update.

Well, I still have some of Mhurron's Humble Pie in the freezer from the whole "No expansion in 2007" discussion. Might not be fresh though.

The point is another avatar will do nothing for SMN. It will make the little sheep happy for three months, until they get bored of it like they did Diabolos and Fenrir, then begin the ask for another shiny. All the while SMN is still considered crap outside spike DD at some HNM fights and does not fulfill it's potential. That's a nice pattern.

Nonetheless, its been over two years since SMNs got a new avatar and they're due one. It might be a shiny to you, but challenging summons and being able to wield them is part of the whole FF experience. If you can't challenge summons, you may as well not have chocobos and airships.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

In just about every "adjustment" thread you cook up, there's something with damage mitigation.

And why shouldn't this be the case?

It's a major issue that deserves a great deal of attention. It may be about helping Defense and VIT or it may be about letting 2-handers not rely on /NIN. Either way, it's extremely important.

In that legendary Subtle Blow discussion, you were quick to point out RDM/NIN with a dagger can Enspell something to death without TPing it and highlighted SB's benefits with MNKs duoing mobs in Salvage. These are rather limited situations. Oh and you want RDM to get Plague.

Again you show your ignorance as you did in that very thread. Neither of these situations are as limited as you make them appear to be.

1) You forget to mention RDM soloing via gravity, bind, and DoT. Plague would be extremely potent in those situations and those situations are plentiful.

2) Duoing(especially mage + MNK... RDM+MNK probably being most potent) is extremely popular. Adding another source of TP doesn't greatly increase the TP gain to the point of making a spell like plague useless. You really are talking about of your ass with this one... do you really think people don't duo-trio stuff? PS: Salvage is big deal as it's the top end-game event at the moment.

3) Given the above, I don't think I need to explore the possibilities of enspell only damage. It would work greatly, and that's what matters.

Now you want Refreshga? We have three jobs with the buff, three jobs with an auto refresh trait, two jobs with native aspir, Sanction, the signet adjustment refresh gear, +hMP gear, Healer's Roll, juice and cookies.

I don't think we need more refresh, +hMP or foods, but new methods of giving out MP or curing. A tool based Chemist, for example, would alliviate all kinds of MP issues. Plus, refreshga would simply overwrite refresh and why shaft RDM on one of the remaining exclusives it has?

I would prefer a Ballad BP for the very same reason you mention. But despite that, there is already Refreshga in the game, two forms actually: Evoker's Roll and both Ballads.

This has nothing to do with a Chemist job, let alone one that is yet to, and unknown to, exist.

RDM doesn't get shafted from another job being able to produce a Refresh effect. That's completely absurd.

Do you mean someone might invite a SMN over a RDM? Being upset over that would be even more absurd. This game's party system isn't dictated by it's jobs, but it's archetype slots. There needs to be someone(s) who mitigates damage(could be a single figure or everyone), who do damage(ditto), someone who cures, and someone who "supports". You can mix this up for whatever result you seek. Concerning "support", this should be a slot that can be filled by multiple jobs, not just RDM and BRD. SMN should be able to fulfill that slot. To do so, they need to be able to keep up the endurance of themselves and other mages. Also, having strong BPs to boost melee damage are ideal.

Are RDMs going to cry because they can be replaced like any other melee in the entire game? It has nothing to do with them.

For the sake of FFXI, we could say, that you could summon Garuda so many times on a particular day at no cost, but limit it to a few times a day.

This seems cumbersome and has a lot of potential holes. Something more along the lines of usual gameplay would work better.

Another option could be to keep the cost, but let an Avatar be cost free on its own day. While this wouldn't be as perfect a solution, its makes a little more sense given the existing design. Windsday is when Garuda's powers are at their peak, a SMN could keep here out at no cost and attend to thier other duties without straining MP too hard.

This is nice, but doesn't fix a lot of issues. Would serve better to simply have an item that reduces pr based on the day, similar to Relic Head piece as small addition, but not nearly important as other fixes done to the job.

Nonetheless, its been over two years since SMNs got a new avatar and they're due one. It might be a shiny to you, but challenging summons and being able to wield them is part of the whole FF experience. If you can't challenge summons, you may as well not have chocobos and airships.

They are due reasons to use their current avatars to their full extent. It's an utter waste to add a new avatar if 90% or 60% of it's potential will just be ignored like every other avatar.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

And why shouldn't this be the case?

It's a major issue that deserves a great deal of attention. It may be about helping Defense and VIT or it may be about letting 2-handers not rely on /NIN. Either way, it's extremely important.

Because Utsusemi has already broken this game to the point that it would outflank most alternatives. Do I need to point out the lack of WAR/SAMs?

When you fight a monster, HNM or God, why should you be able to deal damage and not take it in return. I don't think SE can weaken EXP loss on death much more than they have. Suck it up and die if you don't watch your hate. Relearn RoZ/CoP PT dynamics.

There should be a consequence for zerging.

Again you show your ignorance as you did in that very thread. Neither of these situations are as limited as you make them appear to be.

1) You forget to mention RDM soloing via gravity, bind, and DoT. Plague would be extremely potent in those situations and those situations are plentiful.

2) Duoing(especially mage + MNK... RDM+MNK probably being most potent) is extremely popular. Adding another source of TP doesn't greatly increase the TP gain to the point of making a spell like plague useless. You really are talking about of your ass with this one... do you really think people don't duo-trio stuff? PS: Salvage is big deal as it's the top end-game event at the moment.

3) Given the above, I don't think I need to explore the possibilities of enspell only damage. It would work greatly, and that's what matters.

You're really hair-splitting the issue, which was your problem with the argument last time.

(1) Soloing something with Enspell is soloing it the slowest and most boring way possible, next to just DoTing the mob. If I fail at anything in this part of the discussion, its how this is relevant to the game on a larger scale. People don't want to take forever to kill something. Killing faster usually means a few more people and those people mean TP.

(2) Perhaps Salvage is huge on your server, that's not the case everywhere. Getting 18 or preferably less people interested in Salvage is a challenge where I am, moreso than Salvage itself. Given that Salvage is a timed event, people are not interested in long kills. They want quick, safe runs. You method might be safe, but its not quick. I'm sure people have better means already.

Some of the Salvage stuff is nice, but lots of it is also not amazing enough to get mages motivated. Awesome stuff there for ToA jobs and if your Job got shafted on the good Sky gear, but really, that's about where it starts and ends. Everything I could want for my COR there my RNG already can get elsewhere. So I'm really just there for my COR.

(3) As pointed out in the numerous Mystic Knight build threads and #1, Enspell damage is LOLdamage. Failing that MK doesn't happen, Enspells need a real boost. But then RNG's elemental arrows are just as much of a joke. I don't know why SE chooses Holy Bolts to be so radically different, but they're the real deal on magical proc damage. But then, which job pays/crafts for those results and which doesn't? Therein lies the reason.

This has nothing to do with a Chemist job, let alone one that is yet to, and unknown to, exist.

That's not really the point, the point is rather than dilute and ability and make it even more generic than before, that we should find different means to make MP recovery/efficiency happen. There are plenty of potenial ways.

RDM doesn't get shafted from another job being able to produce a Refresh effect. That's completely absurd.

Do you mean someone might invite a SMN over a RDM? Being upset over that would be even more absurd. This game's party system isn't dictated by it's jobs, but it's archetype slots. There needs to be someone(s) who mitigates damage(could be a single figure or everyone), who do damage(ditto), someone who cures, and someone who "supports". You can mix this up for whatever result you seek. Concerning "support", this should be a slot that can be filled by multiple jobs, not just RDM and BRD. SMN should be able to fulfill that slot. To do so, they need to be able to keep up the endurance of themselves and other mages. Also, having strong BPs to boost melee damage are ideal.

The point is RDM is rather diluted at the moment. The fact that you want Plague or Petrify - as unrealistic as that is - kinda proves the truth of that statement. What does RDM have over any other job magically aside from Enspells, Refresh and Gravity?

Nothing. Anyone can sub WHM for barspells, SMN has Phalnax, too, four other jobs have dispels. Well technically, SMN has enspells too, and theyre just as LOL.

Also, funny how you limit support to "RDM and BRD" could have sworn there were two others on top of SMN's support potentials

Are RDMs going to cry because they can be replaced like any other melee in the entire game?

No, they're crying because they're generally forced into a healer role, that's a different topic. They wish someone would invite them to melee.

They are due reasons to use their current avatars to their full extent. It's an utter waste to add a new avatar if 90% or 60% of it's potential will just be ignored like every other avatar.

Its still most likely they are going to add one. If BST and DRG aren't getting any further boosts to pets (which are also needed), I see no reason for SMN to at this point. They're not exactly hurting for a place in this game, either, they just have slow invites. They're just due a new "shiny," as you put it.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Because Utsusemi has already broken this game to the point that it would outflank most alternatives. Do I need to point out the lack of WAR/SAMs?

Because it can not migrate damage as well as WAR/NIN. If you mean a Great Axe using WAR/SAM, the issue is also that two-handed weapons are subpar at the moment in comparison to dual wield and Axes have Rampage.

Adding damage mitigation opens to more jobs and subjobs will only solve the /NIN situation, therefor empowering many jobs.

hen you fight a monster, HNM or God, why should you be able to deal damage and not take it in return. I don't think SE can weaken EXP loss on death much more than they have. Suck it up and die if you don't watch your hate. Relearn RoZ/CoP PT dynamics.

Who made you the boss? SE has no intention of nerfing "zerg" tactics or utsusemi, so the only solution(and the best solution) would be to empower other jobs in a TP burn situation so the game is balanced. SE has no problem with gamers making their own rules, maybe you should get over it.

If SE wanted to boost SCs to encourage that play style, more power to them. TP Burns only really leaves out BLM and SMN, both of which would benefit greatly if SCs got a big boost.

Either way... DRG, DRK, and SAM can use improvements so they can take part in TP Burns without having to sub /NIN. This would extremely helpful in them catching up to the top tier jobs.

No sort of damage mitigation will allow non-tanking jobs tank HNMs. If a DRK or SAM or MNK or so on can tank an exp mob, more power to them. This game needs more tanks and it will go a long way for solo content.

For your information, TP burns existed long before CoP. It was rather popular in the days of Sky exp and continued to be popular. It grew in popularity as more people saw that it is the most proficient way of dealing damage and endurance. "Rotz/CoP tactics" were ugly little failures that the whole FFXI community should be happy to get over. Many are. Some chose to leave in the past and suck on purpose.

(1) Soloing something with Enspell is soloing it the slowest and most boring way possible, next to just DoTing the mob. If I fail at anything in this part of the discussion, its how this is relevant to the game on a larger scale. People don't want to take forever to kill something. Killing faster usually means a few more people and those people mean TP.

That's great, but doesn't change a thing. Try actually having a point when you counter someone else's point.

"boring" and "slow" doesn't make it any less effective. And again, I don't see SE asking you for what everyone should be doing. You are not the boss, get over it. It works and Plague would be extremely helpful in it's efforts.

(2) Perhaps Salvage is huge on your server, that's not the case everywhere. Getting 18 or preferably less people interested in Salvage is a challenge where I am, moreso than Salvage itself. Given that Salvage is a timed event, people are not interested in long kills. They want quick, safe runs. You method might be safe, but its not quick. I'm sure people have better means already.

Oh, you don't do Salvage? Boo woo. That doesn't not one else is and that doesn't mean no one else is on your server.

And going with 18 is pretty retarded, especially anywhere outside Bhaflau. You don't know what you are talking about, so please stop talking about it okay? "Quick(est) safe(st) runs" usually involve one or two MNKs doing most of the (melee) damage and tanking. I repeat, stop talking out of your ass.

Some of the Salvage stuff is nice, but lots of it is also not amazing enough to get mages motivated. Awesome stuff there for ToA jobs and if your Job got shafted on the good Sky gear, but really, that's about where it starts and ends. Everything I could want for my COR there my RNG already can get elsewhere. So I'm really just there for my COR.

Again, "me me me". Do you think I care what you want? I care what everyone in the game wants, not just one person. Neither MNK, NIN, or SAM got shafted in sky gear and their optimum builds would consist of full Usukane. The best BLM build would consist of full Morrigan's. Salvage has more best gear in the game than any other event. It doesn't replace Ebody, but almost every piece ranges from fantastic to good. No ebody, but it does replace both Zenith body and Crimson body for RDM in one piece.

(3) As pointed out in the numerous Mystic Knight build threads and #1, Enspell damage is LOLdamage. Failing that MK doesn't happen, Enspells need a real boost. But then RNG's elemental arrows are just as much of a joke. I don't know why SE chooses Holy Bolts to be so radically different, but they're the real deal on magical proc damage. But then, which job pays/crafts for those results and which doesn't? Therein lies the reason.

Enspell is TPless(and nigh hateless) damage. It's small, hitting a cap of 25~ if I'm right, however, the goal of killing something with enspells is that you hit as many times as possible in a very short time. Things like Kraken Club, daggers, and lots of Haste are involved. If a creature can't build TP, your defense becomes very safe.

What does RDM have over any other job magically aside from Enspells, Refresh and Gravity?

The best enfeeblers in the game, including sleeping monsters. Able to main heal while having the best magical endurance in the game. The best soloers on any monster that can be binded and/or gravitied... I would say in general, best soloers in the game. On top of this, they can be built to deal very decent magical damage(behind only BLU, BLM, and SMN), tank(probably the best defensive tank in the game), and can even melee if thing is weak enough, though not too effective compared their other options.

RDM are top tier and easily surpass jobs like BLU and WAR in being the most varied job in the game.

RDM being able to cast more enfeebles is the only way to advance them in my opinion. They don't need to be better curers or nukers.

They wish someone would invite them to melee.

BurningPanther's dreams aren't shared by majority of RDM. He's LOL and if he posts anywhere outside his little sanctuary, people make it clear to him.

If BST and DRG aren't getting any further boosts to pets (which are also needed), I see no reason for SMN to at this point.

First off, why would BST and DRG not getting boosts have anything to do with SMN, let alone be a reason why they shouldn't get boost. That's an incredibly weak argument. "They are not fixed, so we shouldn't fix them"? Do you read what you type?

No job is due for a shiny. Maybe I wasn't clear by what I meant when I said shiny. It's like SE dangling their keys in front of retard who then says "ooh ooh shiny!". If the keys are the Summon, guess where the people who want a new summon fit in that little equation.

Most or all jobs are due fixes, not false distractions.

[Akashimo]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Because Utsusemi has already broken this game to the point that it would outflank most alternatives. Do I need to point out the lack of WAR/SAMs?

Honestly, he's right. The amount of war/nins over whelm the DDs searching in 50s to merit levels. Hell, even had a party on thf at mount zhylam where we had a war/nin tank. Didn't even know how to hold hate, much less, take less dmg. Utsusemi broke wars from being something other than DD when there are no tanks to merit with. Yes you heard me, Merit with. I had to steal hate on Thf/war and switch to full enmity/eva gear just to buy time for the war to gain shadows or the only mage(rdm sadly), to get her out of the red... and the war was in nothing but DD evasion down. >_>;

Relearn RoZ/CoP PT dynamics.

Current Party trend. People not having sky. People not even having meadows.
They are just spoild on ToAU's brain numbing lazyness. I've grew up in this game on those tatics with the 3/3 setup. Tank, puller, DD, support, healer, support/DD mage. Its sad not seeing a blm lfp, nor a whm when I actually feel like meriting on thf. A good meadows greater bird party can easily out do any ToAU camp.

What does RDM have over any other job magically aside from Enspells, Refresh and Gravity?
Nothing. Anyone can sub WHM for barspells, SMN has Phalnax, too, four other jobs have dispels. Well technically, SMN has enspells too, and theyre just as LOL.
Also, funny how you limit support to "RDM and BRD" could have sworn there were two others on top of SMN's support potentials
No, they're crying because they're generally forced into a healer role, that's a different topic. They wish someone would invite them to melee.
Its still most likely they are going to add one. If BST and DRG aren't getting any further boosts to pets (which are also needed), I see no reason for SMN to at this point. They're not exactly hurting for a place in this game, either, they just have slow invites. They're just due a new "shiny," as you put it.

Rdm/whm = cheap sell outs. And its kind of limited to what a rdm can do for DD even being the jack of all trades. We don't get EX sword ws, espically the mighty vorpal blade, unless we're /war /pld /drk /blu. Parties just want /mage and don't even want to see a rdm weilding a sword in exp. Daggers so far are only best for /nin enspelling, which sucks majority of the time. Soloing avatars that way is the only real time I get to bust that out for some fun. Earlier I was toying around trying to see if I can work up leveling bst again. One thing I've noticed, why they still got that pet swap claim issues?! Pet boosts along with that issue should be fix for soloing bsts and smns. And on the subtle blow statements. Try telling a cor to use that roll on high tp spamming mobs. They just ignored me and went with atk/crit/acc type rolls. Nothing like brd cookie cutters in rng body now. As I recalled he went something like this, "Dmg > mob tp" >_>;; Then the pld died to fire breath of crawly.

Enspell is TPless(and nigh hateless) damage. It's small, hitting a cap of 25~ if I'm right, however, the goal of killing something with enspells is that you hit as many times as possible in a very short time. Things like Kraken Club, daggers, and lots of Haste are involved. If a creature can't build TP, your defense becomes very safe.

All true v.v;

The best enfeeblers in the game, including sleeping monsters. Able to main heal while having the best magical endurance in the game. The best soloers on any monster that can be binded and/or gravitied... I would say in general, best soloers in the game. On top of this, they can be built to deal very decent magical damage(behind only BLU, BLM, and SMN), tank(probably the best defensive tank in the game), and can even melee if thing is weak enough, though not too effective compared their other options.

RDM are top tier and easily surpass jobs like BLU and WAR in being the most varied job in the game.

RDM being able to cast more enfeebles is the only way to advance them in my opinion. They don't need to be better curers or nukers.

Rdm tank as in hnm/exp/merit? How I like to know. Tried it in a vit/def/phalanx build. Didn't work out as the usual war/nin sucking up both mine and whm's mp making the party disband cause of hate tossed around nearly causing a complete wipe.

BurningPanther's dreams aren't shared by majority of RDM. He's LOL and if he posts anywhere outside his little sanctuary, people make it clear to him.

>_> You know, some of the things you've said in a lot of posts this passed month can be "Legal Fish's LOL". And before you can quote anything on me of that I know I said stuff like that, but you're just taking it to aggressively.
Day Rdm get the DD build and access to Vorpal Blade w/o the listed subjobs, would be the biggest boost to them ever next to granting them Plauge, Break, Refresh II and higher enspell dmg cap. Can we say, dmg(weapons') * (enhanching magic skill/mnd ) + 15( if on day of spell) for a formula?

No job is due for a shiny. Maybe I wasn't clear by what I meant when I said shiny. It's like SE dangling their keys in front of retard who then says "ooh ooh shiny!". If the keys are the Summon, guess where the people who want a new summon fit in that little equation.

Most or all jobs are due fixes, not false distractions

Some of us likes shiny =3 why you think ppl love pld? Sides, its something to get us hyped up about til one of these threads being major downers about things comes up. Let the joy live a little before the new thing in question comes.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

RDM/NIN. Always /NIN, as it's the best damage mitigation in the game. Enfeebles like Sleep, Bind, and so on are incredible for long term hate. There is no spike hate, which is a RDM's tank major weakness(then again Chainspell at start might able to fix that). Anyway, Cure yourself, haste yourself, Stoneskin ready for when shadows are down.

[Akashimo]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

RDM/NIN. Always /NIN, as it's the best damage mitigation in the game. Enfeebles like Sleep, Bind, and so on are incredible for long term hate. There is no spike hate, which is a RDM's tank major weakness(then again Chainspell at start might able to fix that). Anyway, Cure yourself, haste yourself, Stoneskin ready for when shadows are down.

Key terms for tanks in bold.
Things almost impossible for a standard party to want a rdm tank atm underlined.

One spike hate spell w/o it being a burden or drain on resources and near effectiveness of Provoke would drastically change how rdm could be looked at. Then again, anything shiny to change a play style starts to make me think of ppl saying, "war/nin > war/sam" >_>; One can hope at least ; ;

And like it's been beaten down in on a dead horse, Utsusemi broke us.
Hell, my ls wouldn't even take my thf to merit unless i'm /nin cause of the hate and dmg i take pulling/dding >_>; Not my fault nins can't hold against a Dancing Edge. Or a SA Jump before TA WS. Personally I like uping my DoT using a Double Attack/Triple Attack build with haste/crit gear on. But apparently parties love to be made with a lone rdm(or whm) these days. (though the rdm in this merit context is the best damn one for dynamis in keeping mobs slepted and silenced )

And it looks like burningpanther is lurking around o.O

[BurningPanther]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

BurningPanther's dreams aren't shared by majority of RDM. He's LOL and if he posts anywhere outside his little sanctuary, people make it clear to him.

You know, I try very hard not to sling mud or slander individuals. I try to argue the issue, and not the person, and follow some semblance of respectfulness when perusing forum-talk. Yet here we are, the is the second time you've felt the need to bring up my name in a mudslinging instance. The first was a pointless aside to the nature of thanking posts, and now my stance, diametrically opposed to yours, on the nature of RDM.

When the debate is over, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

Taking a moment to see past the end of your nose would reveal that while I'm one of the few who speaks aloud about it, I'm hardly the sole "combat RDM" proponent, and while where are in the minority, it's not by a large margin.

But whatever, I'm gonna borrow a page from your book, try it on your level, just to see if it's as fun as you make it seem:

You are a self-important asswipe whose delusions of grandeur prevent him from coming to grips with the fact that his opinion isn't end-all-be-all, which is why you pitch a fit when no one heeds your lofty "suggestions" posted in your threads. You don't have it all correct, oftentimes not even close. That same obtuse thought process prevents your from keeping an open mind, which results in your repeated back-an-forth arguing with everyone and their mother. You have NO room to call anyone "LOL." You may have a few clever lines, but your shit does still stink.






Hm... no, that did nothing for me.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Spike-Flailing Derail

No job is due for a shiny. Maybe I wasn't clear by what I meant when I said shiny. It's like SE dangling their keys in front of retard who then says "ooh ooh shiny!"

So its like Morrigan's set when dangled in front of you?

Keep in mind challenging avatars doesn't just benefit SMNs, there are also gear rewards that come out of that for other jobs, which makes it even more lucrative to add a new avatar to challenge. I'm pretty sure there will be some cool shit for beating Odin Prime or Alexander if you can challenge them.

There's no good reason not to add another avatar battle. So says the Ifrit's Blade for my BLU and Fenrir's Earring for my RNG and COR. I also have the Thuder rings, Diabolos' Earring and such, adding a new avatar to challenge isn't just about giving the SMNs another light show piece, but give jobs stuff as well. Avatars are central to the goings-on in FFXI and are of interest to everyone.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

So its like Morrigan's set when dangled in front of you?

Not at all. Morrigan's is a step forward in progression while a new summon is just a distraction from balancing problems.

Keep in mind challenging avatars doesn't just benefit SMNs, there are also gear rewards that come out of that for other jobs, which makes it even more lucrative to add a new avatar to challenge. I'm pretty sure there will be some cool shit for beating Odin Prime or Alexander if you can challenge them.

Kind of like the gear you get from beating Odin in Valgrind, already in-game?

[Sevv]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

So far off topic

[Hilde]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

yep...wan't this thread about Avatar speculation?

[Silent Howler]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

For those of you that don't know already, both Odin and Alexander have now appeared in the game.

(Image of Odin and Where you meet him.)

(Image of Alexander and Where you meet him.)

The thing that seems interesting to me is how you come across these avatars. They are both celestial avatars, but unlike the other ones, you do not meet them via protocrystal. (That I'm aware of.) They seem to play a role more similar to the terrestrial avatars.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

ToA Ending OR Go beat Alexander first

Upon averting Ragnarok, it has been discovered that a rift or "Astral Gate" was left where Alexander was defeated and that this rift is not unlike the one leading to Odin's Einherjar in Halzaham Testing grounds. It is said these rifts lead to the "world of the avatars."

In other words, ToA isn't exactly done yet, it seems.

CoP 5-3 "The Three Paths" gave us our first hints at Odin and Alexander and why they were vaguely included in that storyline still remains somewhat unclear.

Or was it?

It never was made clear if it was Promathia or Odin that spoke through the Star of Tavnazia. We know Odin's Protocrystal was in Bearclaw Pinnacle. The Moblins were looking for Alexander, but found Promathia's statue that later got moved to Sacarium.

The vison we had from Ulmia's acquaintence in Selbina showed the kindred and the Dark Protocrystal.

Both Alexander and Odin use spears, Selh’teus uses a spear of light similar to Alexander, Prishe uses her magicite to the same ends as they both deal damage to Promathia with them.

Add to this that "awakened" celestial avatars need a vessel to be brought into Vana'diel. Was Selh'teus Alexander's vessel? Was Prishe Odin's? Odin's voice did seemingly come from the Star of Tavnazia. Did Odin and Alex work together to remove Promathia as a rival power that would get in the way of Ragnarok?

Apocalypse Nigh, Prishe and Selh'teus intervine again to prevent another potential bringer of the Apocalypse. RoZ and CoP loose ends are tied up, but now CoP and ToA loose ends done seem to be.

Razfhad sacrifices himself to dominate the will of Alexander and shut him down. Odin, having no enemy to face, returns to Einherjar. Luzaf pleads with Odin to restory Nashmeria's life.

Who else died trying to dominate the will of an avatar? Karaha-Baruha tried with Fenrir and succeeded, but died because of the toll it took on his body. Granted, Fenny is terrestrial, but still. Alexander and Odin seem to have wills of thier own as well, not unlike Fenrir.

Carbuncle expresses concerns about what would happen if the Celestials were to awaken. Odin and Alexander confirm his fears to an extent. The story is seemingly over for now.

I guess we'll see where this all goes in October.

[Malacite]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Why October? WotG is out this winter if that's what you mean (which means no earlier than Dec. 21)


Also, at one point in CoP (during 3-paths I believe) it mentions that it in fact was not Promathia who spoke to Raogrimm but another dark god. This leads us to the conclusion that it must have been Odin.

Much like with Luzaf, Odin came to Raogrimm in his dying moments, offering power in exchange for his soul. Also take note that it says the Shadow Lord had to travel to the depths of hell (Odin is the lord of the Underworld) to recruit the demons (kindred).