Avatar Speculation and You

[Karinya]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Interesting idea, considering the hints that "the Light Divinity" (probably Alexander) is a biotechnoloical weapon or something similar, which the Empire is attempting to restore (possibly to use it against the Far East?). On the other hand, it seems like it would take a lot of the fun and variety out of puppet configuration - why would you NOT use Alexander, if you had him?

According to an npc in Al Zahbi, one of the ancient civilizations on Aradjiah was called "Alzadaal" and had a giant as the basis of its power. "Alzadaal" sounds a lot like "Alexander" - especially in Japanese where L and R aren't always distinguished.

Hints about Alexander from the CoP storyline:

Jabbos states that the Moblins built Movalpolos as part of their search for "an iron giant bathed in light". They didn't find it, though. (Probably because it was in Aradjiah...)

And about the location of the Dark Protocrystal:

In the CoP mission "Flames for the Dead", in the area where you fight the Snoll Tzar, there is a pile of gray crystal rubble. During one of the cutscenes, you see a brief "flashback" that shows the rubble's original form: it is shaped exactly like the 6 known Protocrystals. The Dark Divinity - which is NOT Promathia - is mentioned several times in the CoP storyline, as well.

[klvino]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Hints about Alexander from the CoP storyline:

Jabbos states that the Moblins built Movalpolos as part of their search for "an iron giant bathed in light". They didn't find it, though. (Probably because it was in Aradjiah...)

Which explains part of the Tau storyline of how the Moblins came to Halvung in search of something, and supposedly found something. So yeah, the storylines really do get tied together.

[Nakti]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

The Phoenix <=> Dem connection is an interesting idea.

Having recently unlocked BLU and looking at the other 2 new jobs, I thought it odd that the 3 items requested for BLU all came from the Bastok-ish area (Stone from Wadi, Tear from Gust, Sand from Dunes) and that the PUP quest starts in Bastok. Perhaps there is a Bastok <=> Aht Urghan connection?

[Toksyuryel]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Also worth noting that the Tenshodo are based in Bastok. There is definitely a connection.

Just now I went to Bearclaw Pinnacle to review the cutscene from Flames for the Dead and I am now 100% convinced, the "Dark Divinity" IS odin, and those are shards of his Protocrystal up there.

cutscene text

Shikaree Z : What happened to the rrresting place of the sleeping god...?
Louverance : You know of the divinity said to slumber here?
Shikaree Z : There should be an enormous crystal of darkness here.
Shikaree Z : It can't be... The beastman deity you speak of...!
Shikaree Z : !!!
*flashback that CLEARLY SHOWS the Dark Protocrystal in its original form*

The crystal shattered recently too, although it is unknown exactly when. But, it was still whole 20-30 years ago when the Shadow Lord was born. It was Odin, not the Shadow Lord, that created and commands the Kindred (which is why they remain even though the Shadow Lord currently resides only in Dynamis).

cutscene text

Prishe : What I want to hear is the lowdown on the big boss behind the Kindred of the Northlands.
Prishe : The Mithra seem to think that it's Promathia, but I know better than that.
Prishe : So, who the hell is it? He's called the Divinity of Darkness by the beastmen, apparently.
Louverance : I returned here to investigate that very fact...
Louverance : The legends of the northern islands tell that the Divinity of Darkness slumbers in this land.
Louverance : At some time in the past, the Shadow Lord followed the voice of this sleeping deity to its source.
Louverance : His actions led by the powerful stone in the possession of the Shadow Lord, the Divinity of Darkness created an army of demons to enter the service of his visitor.
Prishe : I think I'm starting to get it now. The being who the beastmen call Promathia is actually...
Louverance : Tell me! I must know the truth!
??? : Prishe!
Louverance : Wait! Be on your guard! There is something strange afoot!
(And it's here that you are attacked by the Snoll Tzar, interrupting Prishe just before she reveals that it's Odin, and of course she never remembers to finish explaining later.)

[Malacite]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Just a guess as to Pheonix's origins....


I can only think of two places where Phoenix may reside;

The cradle of rebirth (which would be very fitting) or Mount Zhayolm (much more likely)

Remember, Tenzen's blade is blessed by Phoenix, which means he had to have met him (her?) at some point. SE also promised new avatars in Aht Urhgan expansion prior to release, so who knows?

[Toksyuryel]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Tenzen is from the Far East. Aht Urhgan is the Near East (and they are at war with the Far East). Phoenix would not be located anywhere in Aht Urhgan, I can't possibly see how Mount Zhayolm would make any sort of sense. Cradle of Rebirth might make sense, the only problem there is it's a CoP zone and SE has this annoying policy of making expansions completely autonomous (Apocalypse Nigh being the ONLY exception). Add to the fact that Fenrir is already the Mea avatar, Dem is the only crystal without an avatar nearby and Phoenix is the only Terrestrial left without a crystal, so it would follow that she would be (originaly, at least) somewhere near there. Her current whereabouts are of course unknown, but I would not stake money on her showing up in Aht Urhgan.

Last point I want to bring up; SE may have promised new avatars, but did they ever say we would get to summon them?

[Shinoe]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Interesting stuff. Would anyone be able to post a link to any of these cutscene's videos? i tried looking for the "dark rider video we all say 10,000 times", but i havent found any hint of it off of google or youtube. Help a SMN out (who doesnt have the firepower to even get this deep into the storyline m;.;m)

[Emurei]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

thanks silentsteel, enjoyed reading those avatar stories

[Malacite]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

What if Odin is cursed? Maybe he's under promathia's influence and was granted invulnerability (or damn close to) in exchange for his soul, or something? Perhaps the Astral Candesances will have something to do with this. Also worth noting is that Odin's is the only confirmed Protocrystal to have been shattered thus far.

I personally think that the ACs are the power source of Alexander though. As was mentioned in another thread, there's some speculation that Nyzul Isle is his main body, with the ruins of Alzaadal being his 4 main towers. This also fits right in line with the references to that civilization having an "Iron Giant" or w/e.


And SE did promise new avatars in Aht Urhgan, so odds are we're getting both Odin and Alexander at some point. I'd like to see a quest involving Tenzen to restore Phoenix though in the future. Maybe a battle with Selh'teus ? That'd be neat! E.g, for some reason we have to kill him, and take his remains to the Cradle of Rebirth in some form of ritual sacrifice.

Just some speculation ^^b

[Toksyuryel]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

That's actually an interesting thought. I was looking at the line where Louverance says "His actions led by the powerful stone in the possession of the Shadow Lord, the Divinity of Darkness created an army of demons to enter the service of his visitor." This seems to imply that Odin was being controlled somehow (perhaps the stone was magicite, and it was indeed Promathia's will that controlled him). I want to revise my original theory a little, based on some thinking I've been doing. Odin did not create the Shadow Lord. I'm remembering now that he made a pact with Diabolos (which is why he's trapped in Dynamis now). It would seem that he only visited Odin AFTER he became the Shadow Lord. Odin is however the one that gifted him the Kindred (as is made evident by that line from Louverance).

[Malacite]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

I forget where, but it mentions somewhere in game that the Shadow Lord traveled to the depths of hell itself to the demons to ally with him.

Also, where does it say that he entered a pact with Diabolos? (I'm not very far into Dynamis so I'm guessing it's mentioned there?) I just assumed it was the power of the magicite/promathia that twisted his tormented soul much like the others from the expedition. Xarcabard IS the cursed land after all.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

Also worth noting that the Tenshodo are based in Bastok. There is definitely a connection.

Also worth noting that the bastore faction of pirates have ties to Qutada and his corsairs. The rising of the undead corsairs of the Kingdom of Ephramad could be Odin's collecting warriors to take to Valhalla in preparation for Ragnarok.

Luzaf was

shown trying to forge an alliance with the Troll Mercenaries in the most recent missions. This would make more sense that the Mamool Ja Savages since the Empire once forged an alliance with the Mamool to conquer Ephramad, afterward the Empire built Al'Zhabi atop where the kingdom once stood. Corsairs have no love for the Mamool Ja or the Empire. There really isn't a point to allying with the Lamia, since they're already undead and probably immune to their influences

While this may be overanalyzing the mythology of Odin a bit, the FF versions of mythological characters do play up to some of their history. For example: Bahamut was actually a large fish in mythology, and while he may be a dragon in FFXI he was portrayed in a picture hovering over Al'Tieiu - which is under the sea. When CoP started out, the "ruler of the skies" emerged from the ocean.

Could Odin possibly live up to part of his myth?

In the battle of Ragnarok, Fenrir kills Odin

[Toksyuryel]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

"The depths of hell itself" could just be a reference to what the magicite did to his mind- he had the longest exposure to it, and Ulrich's actions certainly made matters far worse for him. If he was using the magicite to control Odin, and the Kindred, this would make sense. As far as the the whole pact thing goes, I must admit I am going simply on what I've heard for this one. I'll have to clear glacier and xarc before I can give an authoritative answer on the matter; unless someone who has wants to chime in?

[Feba]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

I'd agree, "depths of hell itself" sounds like elvaan-speak for misery...or Xarcabard, Xavhl, or some other unmentioned place in the northlands. Remember there's more to the north than we see, there's an entire orcish empire up there someplace. I don't remember FFXI ever having any real idea of life-after-death, which also kinda brings into question why faith in Altana seems so strong (most religions are based on promising people a good afterlife, or special powers and such), but that's rather off topic.

Although, FFXI could very well use the same sort of principle that FFVII and FFX use, what with the dead returning to some sort of life 'element', which might also explain the elementals. Though still, if they *ever* relate Shrina and Zanarkand to Vana'diel, imma be pissed

[Malacite]

Re: Avatar Speculation and You

(most religions are based on promising people a good afterlife, or special powers and such)

It's no different in FF, at least for the San d'Orian church. They preach about opening the gates of paradise, which is essentially a metaphor for going to heaven.