Fenrir: must I mooch?

[Icemage]

Re: Fenrir: must I mooch?

Thing is, though, by completing the mini-fork battles you permanently lose the ability to instant-warp to that location, which is definitely a minus.

Unless you intend for Summoner to be the only job you'll ever take above level 37, I really don't see the point in being impatient and doing things this way when you have other options.


Icemage

[Murphie]

Re: Fenrir: must I mooch?

I've managed to get by three years in this game without instawarping to those locations. I don't think it's in any way a necessity. Handy? Heck yeah. But not required.

Personally, I like to earn things by my own merit as much as possible. Whether that means doing the mini-trials when I'm 20, or doing the prime battles when I'm 60+, I would just rather do it myself. Not that I haven't tagged along on a few avatar runs (as I've mentioned already), but I never took a spot for someone that could actually contribute, and I got myself to the cloister under my own power.

Yeah, if someone isn't going to be leveling SMN right away, it's probably not necessary to worry about the mini trials. But if they are, it's a great resource for them, so that they don't have to find a bunch of mercenaries to do it for them.

[Sabaron]

Re: Fenrir: must I mooch?

...I really don't see the point in being impatient and doing things this way when you have other options.
Icemage

I haven't tried to rewarp since the minis--all I know is that I still have the forks. I'll try to rewarp this evening and verify, but if I can't--oh well. I think getting 6 leech-avatar battles for whispers plus one leech-Fenrir will probably be much easier than getting 12 leech-avatar battles plus one leech-Fenrir, so I still consider the mini-battles to be worthwhile. I suppose, alternatively, I could wait a year while I level something to 70, but "Sabaron" was a Summoner in Magic of Scheherazade (he was also a Time Mage), and that is what my intention with this character is, so I'd rather not wait until 2007 to get my Avatars.

UPDATE

I just tried Mini Tuning Fork of Earth. He won't accept it. Titan was the only one I reported back on. I'll probably try trading the fork to Ifrit's warper next since I never reported back.

Question for Fork-warpers:

Can you use your mini-forks as a non-summoner? I ask because the guy says you have to be a SMN-20.

[SharMarali]

Re: Fenrir: must I mooch?

I don't think the mini-forks are a waste of time and money, and I think it's a little crazy that you have a whole linkshell of people telling you that they are. Maybe for some select few people they might be, but for most people they're a great way to get the early avatars. I personally have never done the mini-fork battles, because I started playing FFXI on import months before the English release of the game and I already had a 60+ RDM who had obtained all the avatars long before the mini-forks were even released. However, had that not been the case, I definately think I'd have jumped at the chance to get them solo.

I'm constantly testing my own limits in the game and trying to see what I can accomplish solo, even when others tell me it's not a good idea LOL. To me, that's more fun than always "playing it safe" and recruiting a bunch of people to help out with everything I do. Plus, I can come and go as I please and help others because I WANT to, not because I feel obligated to do it because I've gotten so much help from them. It's a matter of personal preference. I've actually had a number of people tell me that it's screwed up the way I play an online game in such a solitary manner, but hey... It's MY $15 a month and I'm going to play the game how I see fit... lol.

And with reference to using the mini-forks to teleport around... Um... Outpost teleportation {Do you have it?} If I want to go to Fei Yin, I usually teleport to mea > run or chocobo, depending on how lazy I'm feeling and how much gil I want to spend, to the outpost in buburimu > teleport to bastok (my home nation) > teleport to Faerugandi > run to Fei Yin from the outpost, taking a total of about 15-20 minutes FROM THE TIME I DECIDED I WANTED TO GO TO FEI YIN. With the idea of using the mini-forks, you still have to get to where you're being teleported FROM first.

I've never used the mini-forks, but I assume they teleport you directly to the cloister? So then you wind up in (pardon me here) the ass-end of the basement of the place and still have to spend several minutes travelling to whereever you're trying to get to in there, unless you're there after Cassie. If I'm correct about being teleported directly to the cloister, I don't even see how you can use this to get to quicksands, because once you get to the cloister or tremors, you can't get back into quicksands without exiting and rezoning, which takes several minutes and could've been done just as quickly by either A) outposting to kuzotz or B) using a 38+ WHM (which you should have at 37+ anyway if you're a career SMN) to teleport to altep > running to rabao > changing jobs > chocoboing to quicksands. But if I'm wrong and the mini-forks don't take you straight to the cloister, then I could see how this might be a relatively useful way to travel, but I don't think any more of a time saver than outposting. The reason I'm assuming they take you right to the cloister is that it seems like it would be unecessisarily difficult for a level 20 SMN to find their way around a place like Rancor or Boyhada solo, but again, I don't know from personal experience, so if I'm wrong, I apologize.

And where Fenrir is concerned, you've been given accurate information about how to obtain him. Either have a bunch of high level SMN or BLM friends able to kill him for you, or pay a bunch of strangers to do it for you, or raise another job to 70+ and hope that you can successfully beat him with a regular 70+ PT. Be warned that even a GOOD PT of 70+ players can lose to Fenrir quite easily, because it's a really hard fight and there's no breathing room for mistakes, even small ones.

I DON'T, however, think it's fair to say that you won't get any invites after level 40 without him. I've PTed with many, many SMNs in the 60's who didn't have him, and they did fine for themselves. He gives you a couple of useful blood pacts, yes, but it's not like you're a completely crippled and useless summoner if you don't have those blood pacts. It's like people saying that a scorpion harness is required for a ninja. Just because it's the standard doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to do it. Yes, a lot of people CHOOSE to do it and put forth a lot of time, effort, and energy to get it. But by no means does having it automatically make you a good player or not having it automatically make you a bad player.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Fenrir: must I mooch?

I'm going to agree with SharMarali here, you lose the ability to port directly to a cloister, but it's not really that far in the first place. If I'm doing a cloister avatar for someone else, I pretty much have to walk them there anyway, so the fork warp is only so useful. With OP warps the remaining really useful fork warps are Ifrit and Leviathan, and I usually solo in their zones. If I can't sneak around these zones that I already solo consistently, I really have no business fighting the cloister battle there, IMO.

You don't absolutely need 5 SMN for Fenrir, either, we do it with 4 SMN pretty consistently on Diabolos. You don't have to strictly "mooch" this battle, either. You can help out somewhat, assuming you follow instructions and hug that entrance warp like it's taking you to prom. If a SMN needs a heal, they'll run back to you and let you work on them a bit. Don't go nuts with a Cure IV, but Vs and IIIs have worked just fine for me when I went on WHM. The key is range. If you're out of Fenrir's spell and aggro ranges, far enough back that avatar hp is invisible, you can do a large number of things to help out. Carbuncle seems to screw this up, however, so make sure you go in with a group of SMNs using 2hr for mp costs + 70+ BPs and not carby kite to 50%.

There's a particular pride you get doing things on your own. If that's for you, go ahead and do the mini-battles. You're really not going to lose that much time from OPing and running to cloisters later. May as well learn how your 2hr works in these battles, you'll see a lot of use on the first three CoP bosses later.

[Icemage]

Re: Fenrir: must I mooch?

Fork-teleport to Cloister of Gales (from Rabao) is a handy shortcut through Cape Teriggan to get to Valley of Sorrows with less risk of getting instant aggro (unlike the outpost, where I've occasionally gotten attacked by goblins and/or undead immediately upon outposting).

Fork-teleport to Cloister of Ice (from San d'Oria) is a nice quick way to get to Fei'Yin.

Fork-teleport to Cloister of Flames (from Kazham) is VERY nice if you're mining Ifrit's Cauldron (or trying to go there for any other reason really).

The only ones that don't really help much are Lightning (would be a fantastic way to get to Dragon's Aery, but the NPC is in Mhaura), Water (NPC in Norg, but it's a nice way to get past the door that normally requires the Paintbrush of Souls), and Earth (which still gets you pretty far in, assuming you're anywhere near Bastok anyway).


Icemage