Stop telling SMN's what to do

[angelalliforever]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

Ewwwww healing a pld lol. Anyways i like dealing 1k dmg with my bps not healing and as far as support goes you can support heal and support bp, but i prefer the healing for my whm. And healing is not a smns strength a rdm can heal better than a smn cureIII sucks.

[Coldrain]

Some Info

For the people who say you'll be main healing till 75 or 70, you ever got a little idea of why?

-_-

When there is no white mage around, who do you ask? Red mage.

When there is no white or red mage around, who do you ask? Summoner.

(I'm pretty sure black mages don't want to main heal at all.)

People take advantage of Summoner. They only want them as healers and/or buffs. That's the part that isn't fair. Either people don't realize summmoner's true power or they don't care about anything about summoner, but healing. One main focus is if you sub /whm. Once you sub that, then BAM! Guess what? They expect you to main heal. When you sub /blm, then poof... There's a fair chance you'll get a party. Subbing a redmage is new to me, so I don't how as much knowledge of a redmage. Don't even think about subbing a bard because you'll be having one song. Who knows? You can either get pties a lot, you can get less pties, or some parties might not even care what you sub, but when it's a summoner, most parties do care.

The main thing I hate is that most people just don't want us to be an actual summoner. We're pure support for the party or we can just melee/magic burst/ and do LOTS of damage...and that's not good enough for party? If it's not good enough, then play go play summoner and just "realize" a lot. If you do think it's good enough, then you have my respect.

If there is no white mage around, then get some items. Buy your own healing stuff or make them yourself. The only problem you'll see towards this is money and the consuming of the items fast. Another odd choice is get a paladin as a tank/healer. There are lots of downsides to this. If you are a taru, you have lots of mp to heal the other; however, you'll be healing yourself a lot more than the others because as a taru you have low defense. If you're a galka. don't even be a main healer as a paladin. If you have high defense so that you won't be healing yourself more than the others a lot, then that's good. Although, people may still think this is a bad idea. Here is a highly recommended choice: get a PL... Just save the summoner some trouble by getting a PL. Ask everyone in the Party to ask someone in their LS or friend list to see if they'd like to PL. If they refuse, make it a little intersting by saying you'll pay them. Also, if you're a ninja and is really good at keeping up with Utsusemi, then you PROBABLY won't need a whm.

About the equipment after lvl 50, you'd just make it a total waste to a summoner. LOTS of people wear the Austere Gear and if you ask a summoner to main heal, then their gear would be useless to their role in a party. The only thing I could think of for summoners that I hate is that you might as well bring 2 sets of gear. A summoner set and a set for healing (example: MND+ gear).

The point is that summoner should be summoners. Let them be free. If the summoner is willing to heal, that's fine. It's just that if you heal for the rest of your summoner life, then you'd never know how a summoner is suppose to really be like. All of that hard work getting the avatars and for what? Nothing...if you're a summoner without any other avatars, you have chances of getting into party since you'll be healing most of the time; though, you need to get them since there may be other parties who actually need a summoner.

[Neppy]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

Here is a prime example. XP parties in the new ToA area, fighting imps, jnun, and flies. The first couple of parties I had there post 70 i was main healer, anyways one day just to try something new I used predator claws on an imp, much to my surprise I did more dmg in one BP then anyone else using WS in the party. Now before I get ahead of myself I will admit that sometimes the BP didnt hit too hot, but on the average it was 700+ dmg. Once I hit 71 and 72 the dmg got even better especially at 72. Now here is a question for all you people asking SMN to heal post 70. If I am in a party and i can do 700+ dmg easily every minute, at 72 it was actually 900+ with an occasional 1.4k dmg, why am i being asked to main heal people when i can out dmg everyone else in the party? Seems like a damn waste to me. It got to a point where in my search comment i said main heal no thanks, ill back up heal. The usual response of there isnt any whms is rediculous, there is ALWAYS whms, but fine if you wanna have a SMN main healer...fine. When you die because spamming cure 3 isnt enough to keep you alive because there is no emergency cure 4 you better no complain about accepting that r1.

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

The thing i've found though is that since healing has become prominent in the summoner community (of course this was long after i hit level 60), mostly all summoners never get to use their spirits. Half the summoners don't even know they cast damage spells and this is what i think kills half the job. Since summoners never get to experiment with these because they are too costly while healing and especially when your summoning skill is underleveled. This is why summoner's other contributions are not valued. with high enough smn skill you can get in 2-3 spirit spells in the time that it takes to wait on 1 bloodpact, just my personal experience.


Bloodpacts are nice but they are kind of random for damage and the buffs are rarely worth using by themselves. The bloodpact was implimented as a way to speed up damage as a summoner, skillchain, magic burst, or buff your party through your avatar. The should be bonuses for having your avatar out, not the sole reason you summon the avatar. This is why bloodpacts are always insufficient, because they were not originally designed to be used the way we are using them. In the one minute it takes you to do a bloodpact, usually your avatar melee does enough to equal the damage from your bloodpact. I think if more players thought of summoner as a valuable contribution and stopped trying to stick it into a single category, the job would bet better off. Likewise i don't think most summoners take thier job as seriously as a rdm or blm does. A mage that doesn't need to bother leveling its magic skill?! pfft


These are just some things i have done using the less publicized part of the job. I know i endorse them a lot, but if i don't then people will just keep talking bad about them like they've been doing for years.

Edit: these are just screenshots of things i've done within the past week using the underutilized part of the smn job.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...al&media=image

[Coldrain]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

The thing i've found though is that since healing has become prominent in the summoner community (of course this was long after i hit level 60), mostly all summoners never get to use their spirits. Half the summoners don't even know they cast damage spells and this is what i think kills half the job. Since summoners never get to experiment with these because they are too costly while healing and especially when your summoning skill is underleveled. This is why summoner's other contributions are not valued. with high enough smn skill you can get in 2-3 spirit spells in the time that it takes to wait on 1 bloodpact, just my personal experience.


Bloodpacts are nice but they are kind of random for damage and the buffs are rarely worth using by themselves. The bloodpact was implimented as a way to speed up damage as a summoner, skillchain, magic burst, or buff your party through your avatar. The should be bonuses for having your avatar out, not the sole reason you summon the avatar. This is why bloodpacts are always insufficient, because they were not originally designed to be used the way we are using them. In the one minute it takes you to do a bloodpact, usually your avatar melee does enough to equal the damage from your bloodpact. I think if more players thought of summoner as a valuable contribution and stopped trying to stick it into a single category, the job would bet better off. Likewise i don't think most summoners take thier job as seriously as a rdm or blm does. A mage that doesn't need to bother leveling its magic skill?! pfft


These are just some things i have done using the less publicized part of the job. I know i endorse them a lot, but if i don't then people will just keep talking bad about them like they've been doing for years.

Edit: these are just screenshots of things i've done within the past week using the underutilized part of the smn job.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...al&media=image

Well done! I was going to mention this a bit earlier, but you put it into much better words! I like the pictures too. The set a great example!

Edit:

I have a question. On this picture( http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...Anch=imgAnch20 ) how did you all regain so much mp?

[Neppy]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

[QUOTE=Grandsummoner_Kairos]


In the one minute it takes you to do a bloodpact, usually your avatar melee does enough to equal the damage from your bloodpact. I think if more players thought of summoner as a valuable contribution and stopped trying to stick it into a single category, the job would bet better off. Likewise i don't think most summoners take thier job as seriously as a rdm or blm does. A mage that doesn't need to bother leveling its magic skill?! pfft

I would like to point out that you had alot of good points in your post. I dont fully agree that avatar melee in one minute equals a BP dmg, sometimes maybe, but when a BP is pulling out 1k dmg every minute there is no way the avatars melee is at optimal best doing 3/4 of that. What i usually do is summon-assualt-BP(70+ dmg BP)-release, in between minutes I try and regain MP back by resting a bit or just by letting any refresh buff replenish MP, I also back up heal and remove status effects from my party, bottom line I try to be as MP efficient as I possibly can and still contribute to the party overall. Doing 900+ dmg on the mob and then turning around and healing the party for 600+ hp is nice. You are right that some SMN dont take the job all that seriously, but honestly every job is like that, ive seen some really lacklust ppl playing every job at some point, even RDM and BLM.

[framerate]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

Blood Pact -> Release -> Carbuncle -> Assault

Any sort of refresh would allow you to regain MP with Carbuncle out (if you take your equipment seriously) and you'd still be contributing to the fight.

After 1 Min (or your personal BP timer) > Release > Summoner Next Avatar > Repeat process

With carbuncle hitting for 15-50 consistently on IT++ mobs, it's almost a waste NOT to have him out (as long as your not pulling an "half attention" summoner. (I've had a few that Blood Pact > Watch TV for 2 minutes > Blood Pact > get a drink for 2 minutes > blood pact > etc)

[Neppy]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

I have the evokers ring and HQ apollo staff, i dont have the yinyang yet but i do use the austere body with the -1 perp. Thats a very good idea with carbuncle, however, I eat hmp foods and i rest obviously with dark staff, if carbie is out I cant rest. Even if I can get in only one rest cycle of +mp its better then having carbie hitting 10-15 and giving the mob TP.

[Vonia]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

No, people don't have to have a high level smn job to know the job. However, there are people that are extremely bossy and want unreasonable requests. Remember, no matter how sure some people may seem about what you should be doing, morons can have just as much confidence as people who know their stuff.

I usually pace myself to 2/3: buffing, healing, and/or nuking unless the setup is such that I don't waste too much mp doing all of them. If people request certain things, I usually don't mind and will try it for a while to see if it works. If it doesn't then I just adjust and do things my own way.

All in all, in the end its a game and you should be able to enjoy yourself. It is wise though, to consider for the best you can offer your party for the fastest possible xp.

[thephil]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

all i know about the whole smn is a broken whm thing is that i usually do my own thing even as main heal... ill tell the ldr i am a smn and im going to use my avatars and if they dont like that fact than dont invite... i dont mean to sound cocky but i dont like the pressure a smn is given as a main heal and i dont blame smns for doing just that... im even starting to lvl blm ( which i originally lvl to 17 just for warp) to 37-40 so i can go smn/blm and work more towards DD and nuking and if the pts tell me to go /whm ill tell them straight out no especially if they had no problem inviting me as a smn/blm thats how i feel on the whole thing and im a 54 smn btw and especially with austere robe, elemental staves, and carby mitts i can do alot with my avatars with much less mp drain... and at times i had carby melee and the pt got mad cause i had more mp than the whm at the end of the battle and i told the pt they need to slow down with the pulls and wait for whm mp cause whm mp should NOT be my main concern... once again i dont mean to sound cocky but i agree with any smn that feels that way

[Vyren]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

Excuse me but it IS a summoners job to main heal till the late 60's -75 when they actually get decent damaging BP's. You say SMN has alot of power, when infact the avatars melee for hardly anything, and do the damage of a BLM spell once every minute. if we wanted a gimp BLM, we'd get a RDM. :3 SMN get a VERY large MP pool which is why when subbing WHM, they ARE main healer, there is no arguing against it and I'm telling you this from years of experience. Just because someone's SMN isn't higher then yours, the likely hood is, they have other jobs at 75 and KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Don't be a stubbern SMN that gives other SMN's a bad name, instead be FLEXIBLE.

[SharMarali]

Re: Some Info

The main thing I hate is that most people just don't want us to be an actual summoner. We're pure support for the party or we can just melee/magic burst/ and do LOTS of damage...and that's not good enough for party? If it's not good enough, then play go play summoner and just "realize" a lot. If you do think it's good enough, then you have my respect.

Yep. Once every 60 seconds, until level 50 when you can do it once every 54? 55? seconds if you have the full Austere. Even with my setup at 75 with 3 pieces of AF2, yinyang, and the austere hat, I can still only blood pact once every 47 seconds. What exactly do you do the rest of that time? I still contend that SMNs doing some healing is a benefit to the PT and the only thing it hurts is the ego of the SMN who thinks they're "too good" to do it.

[thephil]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

for those of u tht say we do bad dmg... u dont know what ur talking about i have done more dmg as a smn than a blm with my bp abilities currently i can get upto 500 dmg to any mob using the right avatar. im a 54 smn and i have been a dd/nuker in pts for the last 8 lvls so it is possible and i had times where my avatar hit harder than the tank so dont say we r useless til 60+ and btw i do very well w/o fenny and dia too.

[tazirai]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

Excuse me but it IS a summoners job to main heal till the late 60's -75 when they actually get decent damaging BP's. You say SMN has alot of power, when infact the avatars melee for hardly anything, and do the damage of a BLM spell once every minute. if we wanted a gimp BLM, we'd get a RDM. :3 SMN get a VERY large MP pool which is why when subbing WHM, they ARE main healer, there is no arguing against it and I'm telling you this from years of experience. Just because someone's SMN isn't higher then yours, the likely hood is, they have other jobs at 75 and KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Don't be a stubbern SMN that gives other SMN's a bad name, instead be FLEXIBLE.

I totally don't agree with you and am glad I was never invited as main healer, If I chose that role fine, But Our BP's are useful from lowest to highest. SMn doesnt turn into a god at 65+, they are good 1-75. You need to know what your PT has and what BP's will be most useful. Also if your PT is taking that much damage, your tank and the attackers suck at juggling hate. I sound liek a broken record saying this. But i'll keep saying this to stop the falsity that is Summoners as Main healers.

Here's the breakdown of "main" healers.

WHM>RDM>BRD>SMN>BLM>DRK>COR
RDM is basically a whm without -na/-ga spells.. wait if they SJ whm then they are the equivalent to one without benediction.

Why do you people keep saying that SMN only useful place is main heal?
And if experience is an indication, I have more than most.

[thephil]

Re: Stop telling SMN's what to do

its about time someone else feels the way i do... and i have a question for all of that believe we r just main healers... have u ever seen viper bite and poisoned nails dmg in a SC? if the answer is a no that its about time u pt with smns and use them for SCs and MBs... we do a fine job in that department!!!!!