SMN Question

[Asir]

This is not one of the normal questions asked about the job. This has more to do with the effects of merits from other jobs on SMN. To be honest, I don't want to do the main healing thing as a SMN when I pick it back up again, I know I'll have to do it sometimes but I'll be picky about when that happens. Basically, before I even think of touching SMN again, I plan on having my other 3 mage jobs at 75 with some merits and all the avatars under my belt.

Merits from BLM:
Would meriting my magic damage/accuracy and all those juicy things that make BLM so dangerous improve the damage I could cause as a SMN?
Would meriting Elemental Magic improve my Avatars as well?

Merits from RDM:
Would the merits from a RDM on Enfeebling help with the blood pacts that enfeeble the mobs? I know there's a couple of them but can't recall their names.

Merits from WHM:
Would the merits on things such Divine and Enhancing Magic aid with the blood pacts that cause Light Damage or the party buffs?

I have tried asking these questions around on my server but none seem to know for sure. I'm not at a level with any of my jobs to test these out but I was told that merits on one job carry over to the job you play if you sub the merited job. When I finally pick up my SMN job again, I want it at it's fullest potential and not just as a wannabe cure machine. However, that's a rant for another time.

[Tirrock]

Re: SMN Question

Job specific merits (thunder potency from BLM, thunder accuracy from RDM, etc) only work on that job, and only while 75. (I"m unsure if this works on that job while level capped however...)

Elemental magic skill has no effect on avatars, nor does enfeebling magic skill. Divine magic skill would make your banishes get resisted less frequently (but still too often to use for damage), and would have no effect on your avatars also.

For SMN in exp, the best merits you could probably pick up are MP and -enmity... Until 75, when you can get avatar physical/magical attack or accuracy.

[Kitalrez]

Re: SMN Question

For SMN in exp, the best merits you could probably pick up are MP and -enmity... Until 75, when you can get avatar physical/magical attack or accuracy.

Even this is a subject of much debate. A lot of us younger SMNs are looking at the parses you 75s have been submitting on those two job specific merits and asking: "You spent perfectly good exp and merits on THAT?!?" I'd adopt a wait and see policy on spending merits for the next little while, at least until they pop in that supposed Summoning Magic update. I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of us are going to be popping merits in -spirit perp and summoning magic skills pretty soon since we should see more noticable effects from those if this patch goes down as expected.

[Tirrock]

Re: SMN Question

What else would you spend it on? Even at a full 5 merits of spirit perpetuation cost, they're still more expensive than normal avatars, for less damage and no control. I haven't even heard what they're planning on doing to SMN other than make summoning magic skill have a point past increasing the frequency of the spirits casting and lower interrupt chances. And something about dealing with SMN not having anything to do between blood pacts, like increasing melee power on avatars. I don't remember hearing anything about them changing spirits though.

Here's a story to support my claims:

I've duoed with a SMN on VT flowers in sea (we wanted relaxing earrings and were tired of nobody helping us...so we decided to duo them). She has yinyang robe, I do not. Equal job levels. Equal blood pact timers (though different gear).

I had 2 avatar physical attack merits, and one accuracy. (My merits have largely gone to more noticable things, like maxing crit hit rate for my melee jobs, and STR.) She had 3 avatar physical accuracy.

During that duo session, my fenrir would tank over hers consistantly. Her eclipse bites doing 400-425, mine doing 475-500. We were both quite amazed by this. My AF2 body's crit hit rate increase would give more noticable damage boosts than just 75-100 points. (Crit eclipse bites were 700+, my highest being 1200 against VT euvhi that night.) We went on like this for 5 hours.

A few days later, we went back (we were 2 euvhi organs shy of getting my earring). She had spent 3 merits and got 2 avatar physical attack. Suddenly, our damage was a LOT more even. I did the same damage as before, and she was doing as much as me. I pulled in a bit more damage with a higher crit chance than she did, but her fenrir was now tanking almost all the time at the start of fights.

[Asir]

Re: SMN Question

Darn, I was hoping for a different answer. Guess I'll just keep hoping like the rest of the SMNs that SE will finally fix the job to it's full potential. Any ideas on when this new patch is coming through?

[Linra]

Re: SMN Question

Soon I hope... I just got 21 today, first time me and my friends leveled since I got my other summons, excluding Ramuh, Levthain, and Ferir of course. And I'm doing like 44-60 magic damage on average to ITs, and 90 magic bursts if I'm lucky, and with such a huge mana drain, cooldown, and long setup time.

I'm actually looking forward to 22 so I can do my subjob's job to feel useful at all..

P.S. Though I don't know where people are getting their infomation from, I hear a lot of people saying sometime mid-June

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: SMN Question

Merits are a pain for summoner. I spent an entire year gaining and dumping merits trying to find ways to make a real difference in my avatar abilities. I ended up tossing out all accuracy and attack merits just because when i got my full relic I noticed that the smn specific equipment has a much larger effect than the merits have. The crit+ and enemy crit- merits i have for my drg bst and pup help out on smn too which is nice. other than that not much you can do that doesn't include summoner specific merits. Your needs may also change with your equipment. With relic armor and 5 elemental cost merits, I have spirits for 8mp.tick (with hq staves) and with refresh i can possibly gain 1mp/tick back in some situations. Unfortunately nobody can help you on your specific merits. You'll have to go with what you use the most.

[Tirrock]

Re: SMN Question

Well, it's possible to give basic guidelines on what merits to use.
HP/MP - MP if you want more max MP. HP if you feel you die too much or taru in dynamis/HNM.
Combat skills - Doesn't matter. Merit dagger if you want to level THF...
Magic skills - Summoning magic skill is the only thing to use here for SMN. At this point this has next to no impact on SMN. Personally, I'm saving this up for enfeebling/elemental magic skill.
Other - Crit hit rate if you're leveling a melee. Minus Enmity if you're a pure mage or non trick attack using melee. Spell interrupt rate down if you feel you get hit too often (soloing bombs is a good example). Crit hit rate down for same reason.
Summoner specific merits -
Avatar physical attack if you solo EM or lower often, also not bad for just general use.
Avatar physical accuracy if you solo bombs often, also not bad for just general use.
Avatar magical attack if you find yourself using meteorite/teir IV spells/astral flow often. Even more useful for SMN in HNM with diabolos.
Avatar magical accuracy if you use avatar magic abilities a lot, minus nether blast...which is accurate enough already.
Elemental Spirit perpetuation cost down if you use spirits a lot. (I personally don't see why people would, but each to their own I suppose.)

You might want to change it around, based on gear like Kairos mentioned. Although there's not many cases where you'd have to do this. If you wore SMN AF2 pants but not AF2 hands, you'd get a large boost out of avatar physical accuracy. If you have AF2 boots you can still get a boost in damage from avatar physical attack, if you want to. So you don't need to change your merits there.

[Asir]

Re: SMN Question

The more I learn about how Merits work, the more I have to wonder what SE was smoking when they designed them. It seems there is only a couple of Merit options that will allow you to improve more then just job instead of using them all to increase the potential of other jobs you may wish to level. If they were smart, they would've attached all the merits to the character, not just a few to the character and the rest to a specific job. Guess I'll just Merit MP, HP and Weapons.

[Tirrock]

Re: SMN Question

I wouldn't say only a couple work on all jobs. The original merit categories do work on all jobs. The job specific ones are limited to that job only because frankly, they'd be way too overpowered otherwise. Every melee would have WAR, THF, and MNK leveled, for double/triple attack and counter attack merits. Jobs with a hand to hand skill would also benefit from MNK's kick attack rate increase. BLM would all have RDM leveled for accuracy merits, and RDM having BLM leveled for potency merits.

And even if job specific merits worked on all jobs, avatars would only be effected by the SMN merits because those are the only merits that increase the damage/accuracy of avatars.

As it is, having +5 STR and +4 crit hit rate already gives merited melees an edge over non-merited melees. My BRD at level 40 will have more MP than my friend's bard at 75, because I have MP merits (and RSE pants). Ninjas with merited evasion/parry skill will, in theory, evade and parry more than a normal ninja.