Question about SMN and +INT

[Darkhound]

I guess I was affraid to ask, but here goes..

I have been always wondering why some of the SMN gear has +int on it. Does it have any effect? If that is the case, what would happen if we have more INT gear as summoenrs of if we eat +inf food? Any comments?

[Karinya]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

I've heard rumors of connections between each stat and that stat's associated element's avatar (STR and Ifrit, VIT and Titan, etc.), and even connecting racial stat bonuses with the corresponding avatars (Mithra having a stronger Ramuh/Garuda while Elvaan are better off with Ifrit/Leviathan, etc.)...

But I haven't seen anything solid substantiating this kind of thing, nor have I tested it myself.

If - and I stress if - this theory is correct, higher INT should make Shiva stronger (although it's not specified exactly how).

I guess I could try it as RDM/SMN; I have quite a bit of +STR that I keep around for soloing, should be enough to have a noticeable effect on Ifrit if the theory is correct...

[Darkhound]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

Thank you very much for your time into replaying. Still I have doubts, if that were the case, then why do we have just INT on the AF?

[Tirrock]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

I'll say what I said to summoning magic skill effecting avatars, back when that was being argued... If character stats effect avatars in any way, it's a very small amount. My garuda certainly doesn't feel much stronger than an elvaan's (if at all stronger). And tarutaru leviathans are pretty much the same as hume or elvaan, from what I've seen.

I think that SE doesn't even know what they put on AF1 half the time. If you take a look at some of them, they're really just...strange. WHM AF1 hands has +STR. THF has +INT, if I remember correctly. PLD has +CHR (I still have no idea what to think about that...SE says CHR doesn't effect provokes, but then people keep saying it does... Meh, I won't wear +CHR gear on my PLD, so I guess it doesn't matter.) Or even look at SMN AF1...that has avatar enmity -, which is the opposite of what I wanted.

[Icemage]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

Most of the AF1 armors are pretty hit and miss, and almost all of the AF1 weapons are. Shouldn't read anything into their characteristics, since they were designed way back when level 60 was the maximum level cap.

Regarding the topic of SMN + INT: at end-game, I've seen dozens of HNM-level SMNs in action, and while there's a lot of theories, pretty much everyone agrees that the only major influences to blood pact effectiveness are stats that directly affect your avatar from certain pieces of gear or merits.

I've heard of people testing with things like Bard Etudes and alternative gears (in fact have helped people do so with my 75 bard job, though we didn't do any comprehensive testing), so if you can't see a visible difference in damage with +40 or more to a stat, I'd say it's a fair assumption to say that your personal stats don't affect the power of your blood pact abilities.


Icemage

[Darkhound]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

Thanks for your information guys. Based on your comments, I will run a few experiments tonight, here they are and let me know what yo think

1. I will make 20 - 30 nether blasts on the mobs in my xp session in sky (golems) and see the average amount of damge, then ill go put 2 merit UPGRADES on avatar magical damange and repeat 20 - 30 nether blasts on thoe same mobs

2. I will equip as much INT gear as i can... and see the difference in blood pact damage and my tier iv spells.

I will let you know the results.

[Haunted]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

PLD has +CHR (I still have no idea what to think about that....

I think chr affects the rate that killer effects kick in, in the promies when messing about farming animas with a friend on level one, my empty killer kicked in more often with chr+ gear on.

The reason that smn AF could have int on, is to help nuke, maybe, SE dont make us sub a certain job, and some people dont sub whm (i personally sub RDM), so maybe it is designed to help dependent on sub job? just an idea.

[nanatsu]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

I wanna say that some of the stat bonuses on AF (and also, some of the base stats some jobs get) don't have anything to do with making the job better in what it can inherently do. I think a few of the AF bonuses are given to job based on the image that job is supposed to project, or how the job has been portrayed in the past. I say some because a lot of the bonuses on AF are quite useful. But others are sort of meh and I think they're just there because SE thinks they're supposed to be there for the sake of what the job is supposed to encompass.

For example, THF has a very high base INT. Their AF hat also has a large int boost on it. Why? Is there actually any proof that int affects steal rate? Unless you go by the idea that SE meant for blm to be a viable sub for thf, then I think SE gave thf a lot of INT because thf is just supposed to be smarter than others.

+CHR on PLD? PLDs are supposed to be heroes. Of course they'd be well liked and honored. You could make a connection to a job's "image" for a lot of stats that seem useless for a job. Even WAR AF, which has a lot fo various different stat boost focus mainly on boosts that, suprisingly enough, make WAR balanced offensively and defensively. That +1 INT on Fighter's Mask is probably a joke. :p

There are other things too. like for example, just about every AF feet has AGi on it. A lot of jobs don't need agi. It's just there. Why? Because SE is probably going off the idea that higher quality footwear naturally makes you more agile. Even the ones that don't have agi have some kind of evasion or dodge effect. There are very few AF feet pieces that don't have anything to do with being agile.

So yeah, that's my take on stat bonuses. just choose what you need, and don't think that the presence of any one bonus is supposed to have some underlying connection to the gameplay mechanics. Sometimes they just don't and are there for aesthetic reasons.

[Xylaa]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

I like Nanatsu's point of view on it all, I never thought of it that way.

To explain the Int on Artifact, I always assumed it was to help weapon skills. Thief has a few dagger weapon skills that have a Int modifier, and so do some staff weapon skills. Also, many of the stats that Artifacts give that a lot of people don't understand, can be useful to the job outside of experice points parties, such as farming, soloing or leveling your npc.

[Shirai]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

CHR for paladins,

We've had that discussion in our linkshell as of why for example Koenig posesses so much CHR.
The going theory was that Enmity is used for hate spikes (Provoke, flash, sentinel etc.)
And that CHR is actually to hold hate over a longer period of time.
As in the more CHR a person had the lower the enmity decrease would be on that person.
I have read some more about it on several boards but I can't really confirm it.
I must say it's an interesting and plausible theory tho.

[nanatsu]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

In the interviews duing the last fan festival they said that CHR has nothing to do with provoke.

[Shirai]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

In the interviews duing the last fan festival they said that CHR has nothing to do with provoke.

Nope I understand that and I completely agree, that's where +enmity comes into play to up the hatespike given off by Provoke, flash, ninjutsu etc.
However hate decreases over time, and in some theories I've heard/read the more CHR you have the slower hate decreases.
I don't know how much that can be confirmed but it would be the only plausible reason for Koenig to hold that rediculous amount of CHR.

[nanatsu]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

Nope I understand that and I completely agree, that's where +enmity comes into play to up the hatespike given off by Provoke, flash, ninjutsu etc.
However hate decreases over time, and in some theories I've heard/read the more CHR you have the slower hate decreases.
I don't know how much that can be confirmed but it would be the only plausible reason for Koenig to hold that rediculous amount of CHR.

Well if they're saying that CHR has nothing to do with Provoke, then I'd take that to mean that it wouldn't affect anything associated with Provoke, including the hate it provides. To say that CHR makes the hate from Provoke decrease slower is to totally discredit the fact that CHR has nothing to do with Provoke. In my opinion, CHR is affecting provoke in your theory, directly affecting the hate it provides. That's against what they said in the fan festival.

[Xylaa]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

The CHR theory would make sense in my eyes. It would explain why in the static I had with a bard, every now and then she'd get hit for no reason. She never cured, as there was usually no need, and she never attacked. But then, my bard is level 11, and songs my generate a lot more hate than I realize.

But it was wierd, most brds I party with get hit eventually for what seems like no reason.

[Shirai]

Re: Question about SMN and +INT

Bard songs generate a lot of hate, things like provoke just a little more.
Like I explained before enmity decreases over time making the mob turn to the person with the most hate at that time.

Your bard gtting hit out of the blue while he's inactive makes sence if the hate decrease on him is less quick then on another person.
We came to this theory because bards and beastmasters in my LS had the same experience.