Cerberus & ?? Odin ??

[Tsikuro]

Re: Cerberus & ?? Odin ??

I think that we really lack in endgame atm.
If they gave Odin 'Zantetsuken', it wouldn't help the situation at all. There's pretty much nothing we can't duo- and, obviously, he wouldn't be able to kill Gods/HNMs/etc in one hit, so it wouldn't help at all. If he were able to, it would render all our other 2hrs useless, too. ><

[silentsteel]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

Ya know there was one thing I remembered about odin, Isnt he really weak to thunder in FFIII? What would that affect him element wise?

[Wiseman40]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

Ya know there was one thing I remembered about odin, Isnt he really weak to thunder in FFIII? What would that affect him element wise?

Well if you go by the current system, him being weak to thunder would make him watery. Odin never struck me as being watery... I think some of the summons are outside of the normal loop of effectiveness.

If something is weak to a particular element that doesn't necessarily put them in the elemental cycle in the same way that Ifrit (for example) is.

I put Odin in the same category is Diabolos Bahamut, etc, in that they are extremely powerful creatures outside of the norm.

As a side note, this brings to mind a particular problem with the storyline involved with summoning them in an MMORPG environment.

I mentioned this elsewhere as well...

The 8 original FFXI avatars representing a particular 'element' were just that, avatars... which brings to mind that they are manifestations of their element, but that many thousands of them can theoretically exist at once.

Diabolos is more like a monster... that there is only one of him... so how can you see a bunch of people summoning him at once?

Considering the nature of Diabolos' power I can just say he can do it... but Bahamut is just an extremely powerful dragon, and only one of him can exist... which may be part of their rationale for not allowing him as a summon.

[Kardor]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

actually an Avatar isnt the God beeing itself.
Its more a weak mirrored immage of the God - If its a God who hasnt a body the avatar takes the form of what resembles the Gods aspect most (e.g. a Bloodsatined Warrior is avatar of the god of war)

Hmm Bout Odin weird is that his Star is located in the North housing the Dark Star.

Hmm his abilitys hmm maybe they give us an Avatar who can equal a War in Melee damage output makeing em reasonable to keep out.


(p.s Bahamut isnt an ordinary Dragon, he is a Terrestrial Avatar - and hes kinda godlike for his lifeforce is shared with vanadiel, when Fenrir "died" Tharongi and Meriphataud Mountains became dead aswell- mentioned in a Windi Mission CS)

[Tempest07]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

bahamut is not just some powerful monster. hes a terrestrial avatar. just like diabolos is a terrestial avatar, just like pheonix is a terrestrial avatar, and just like fenrir and just like carbuncle are terrestial avatars. we could summon a weaker version of Bahamut just as easy as we can carbuincle or fenrir.

and all the speculation on alexander and odin, theyre the true celestial avatars of light and dark respectively, not carbuncle or fenrir or diabolos.

[Gwynn]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

Ya know there was one thing I remembered about odin, Isnt he really weak to thunder in FFIII? What would that affect him element wise?

That was FFIV, and he was only weak against Thunder because his sword conducts electricity (as said in a book on one the the bookshelves in the Land of Summons... Odin was defeated in battle when a bolt of lightning struck his sword), so that wouldn't necessarily change his element. In most games he's instant death to all enemies with Zantetsuken, or else he attacked with his spear Gungnir. In FFIX, Dagger gets the ability "Odin's Sword", which turns his attack into Wind elemental damage if he doesn't instant kill the enemy. So the only element that Odin has ever actually been is Wind. I'm thinking for his Astral Flow, Odin will either use Gungnir or use Zantetsuken and just have it do physical damage. If Odin is included, I'm thinking he'll be used mainly for physical damage Blood Pacts... I can't think of any buffs that Odin could give, except for maybe increased attack (But then Ifrit already has that with Crimson Howl...).

[framerate]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

I think Odin will be an avatar, and he will main mainly MELEE.

This is because at the fan festival they said they wanted to make it so SMN keep their summoners out more instead of the "SUMMON->BLOODPACT->RELEASE" that we all do now.

[Omniblast]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

bahamut is not just some powerful monster. hes a terrestrial avatar. just like diabolos is a terrestial avatar, just like pheonix is a terrestrial avatar, and just like fenrir and just like carbuncle are terrestial avatars. we could summon a weaker version of Bahamut just as easy as we can carbuincle or fenrir.

and all the speculation on alexander and odin, theyre the true celestial avatars of light and dark respectively, not carbuncle or fenrir or diabolos.

They stated that Bahamut is a special case, and that they do not want to make him weaker. Most likely if that is the case, then they will not include to make him a avatar. See Fan Festival 2006 notes for more details pertaining to Bahamut as a Summon.

[Tirrock]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

I'd just as soon prefer giving avatars double attack or perma-enspells. Or even make their melee damage on ITs not suck. (Weee...7+MP perpetuation costs for 15 damage a hit!)

[Darkhound]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

I think we will definatley get more avatars with time, like I am also sure we will most likely never be able to bummon bahamut.

On another note, I chose to be a summoner because I wanted to be a summoner, not a disguised headler. I reject 99% of the parties I am asked to main heal... I normaly replace a blm, but I do not out damage a blm whatsoever!

I agree with many of you... this is our role..... and at leat that is what I do....

1. Summon X Avatar
2. Cast BP either DD or Buff
3. Release
4. Rest or back up heal

Pathetic IMO, SE never ment the summoner role to do this, they have said so themselves and they will change that.

As for reducing the perpetuation cost....... maybe, but i dont know if SE would go through the hassle of editing all the gear with perpetuation cost

From my point of view I see several solutions, please let me know what you think

1. Give avatar the ability to be a part of light and darkness skill chains with BP
2. Make Buffs like rolling thunder, hasteaga, etc... USEFUL.. they are 100% useless
3. Give summoners access to those powerful bloodpacts the prime avatars have.
4. Make our Tier IV spells stronger
5. Reduce bloodpact timer
6. Tweak summoner job in a way thtat you can actually use other subjobs... smn IMO IS ENSLAVED to subbing WHM

Any comments?

[Intensity]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

I love the idea of summoner, gotten it to 20 so far. But I'm the CRAPPIEST healer evar. I mean, I take my wife's old character that has a 34 WHM to the dunes to PL friends every now and then and people die. Many people. So that's the one thing keeping me from leveling summoner. It's one of the jobs in the game I want to play with the most, but I don't even want to put the time into seeking when I know I'm going to have to pass up pt's due to not wanting to main heal.

I'm really hoping SE puts the changes in that Summoner needs so I can put some time into this job. They've been doin' good so far, I'm holding faith that as of April 18th we're all going to be really happy campers.

[Taskmage]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

In fairness, it's harder to PL than to heal for a party your in. When you're actually in the party, you can see everyone's hp all the time and target them instantly.

[Tirrock]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

From 28 to 70 (when I marathon-leveled SMN) I was not main healer twice, not counting one of those parties where I'm supposed to replace a RDM or BRD, and they have a WHM in the group too. First time was in altepa...second and last time was in the high 60's, the day after they made double slap not suck, and avatar spells magic burst...

I was not impressed by the damage, really. It was easier for me to just stick to main healing/buffing/minor damage until 70. Not to mention...if they wanted more damage, a melee/BLM would be better. I try to be open minded when inviting SMNs to my groups, but sometimes it's hard when they flat out refuse to try.

I'm not trying to get on Darkhound's back about this. Especially since we're not even on the same server and won't ever party together. I'm just tossing out my opinion on it.

[yashiro]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

The only way to improve summoner is remove or separate (by each avatar) the bp timer. I don't know why they think we will overpowered if removing the it. Does our bps have higher damage than Blm's spells? No! Why they can using their ability non-stoping but we are limited?
You may say, "hey, they cannot non-stop nuke since they have the hate." Why no one think about, they have higher damage output than us, they can cast a spell faster (we have to call the pet first!) and they have sleep, bind etc spell...
Bst can rest when he has a pet out, but we don't. But I never say it is unfair since we are different types. So, please also consider smn and blm as 2 types as well and remove our bp timer! At very least, separate it with each avatar! Blm needs mp for their spells, we need too! and may be even more than them if you count the pet cost as well!

[Intensity]

Re: Cerberus &amp; ?? Odin ??

PiNG should come save us all and remove that guys ability to mess with the fonts in his posts.

I think that's a great idea concerning seperate BP timers for each avatar though.