Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

[Galaxia]

Hello everyone

Before I write the rest I want to make sure everyone knows THIS ISN'T A FLAME POST!

Right so they havr finaly added a new Avatar Diablos which I'm sure alot of people are happy about... But the draw back is gonna be the same as it was with Fenrir. They have made Diablos very difficult to get unless your a pretty high level. So is it gonna be "Diablos" "Do you have it?"
"No thanks" scene?
I remeber having to go for Fenrir with my LS at lv 35 lol FUN TIME FOR ALL!
was actualy really fun Fenrir chased me and they chased him back. Kinda like Scooby Doo! Anyway I know the Summoners without Fenrir have a hard time getting Partys somtime cause of it! Personaly I don't use the lil puppy that much, A dispel and buff here and there thats about it! But it seems that Summoners without Diablos will be made into Healers again! Although I refuse to be a main healer I know Summoners hold too much power and destruction to be used to heal! I come really close to same dmg to BLM of same lvl and about 60% of time I out damage the BLM which is nice cause I get invites to old partys which is great cause I know my role hehe. But to put a job thats so powerful and gains very little to no hate in the area of healing seems like such a waste! Why give a job ower of destruction and not allow them to show it?

[SlizenDize]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

First of all no one cares about Diabolos because hes not good for much, fenrir on the other hand canbe very efficient with his buffs.


And it's not strange that Summoners act as main Healers before 65 sure they do the same damage as blm... once every min.
You can never MB as much as a unresisted BLM can and a BLM can small nuke in between BPs when you are just plain useless unless you Heal.

If a 75 BLM MB with Thunder IV he would do about 1500-1800dmg. In order for a Summoner to achieve that amount of damage you would have to score a critical hit and trust me that wont happend everytime.

Morale of the story. As 75 Summoner I can be a DD sure but i'd rather main healr because then I know that I will get more exp and I can still toss in a Spinning Dive now and then.
SMN, RDM, WAR, WAR, WAR, WAR in sky ftw.

[Galaxia]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

I've never had a problem getting a DD role in a pt as Summoner, But saying that I never really wait longer then 30 mins for a Party. Always seem to egt invites because I have made a good rep for myself as a DD. Personaly I don't use SMN as a Main Healer, But that doesn't mean I won't heal! I just won't main heal! As for getting exp I have no worries there as I level up very fast.

[Tiamat_Zero]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

Hmmm. even hearing about this I still want to become a summoner, though it will be a while till i can. But this info is good to know.

[Kardor]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

ya Diabolos isnt all the blow.
As for me his Debuffs seem to stick less often to ITs than Fenrirs and against weaker mobs (TW-EM) hes also weaker than Fenrir.

I guess in later game (beyond 65 my current lvl) or in BCNM he might be fairly more effective if his Nightmare for ex. hits.
Dont bother too much bout getting him in the early game if u can get him due to a coincidence take the oppertunity but dont care for him that much.
If u dont get pts atm coz u dunt have him just be patient the hype around him will cool down fast and ppl will return to normal.

Bout the Main Heal, iam fine with that as long i dont have to be Cure3 Slave for a Paladin - for that sux.

P.S Who ever is finding Errors can keep em^^

[Tiamat_Zero]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

It does suck that this job seems to get the short end but untill they make the avatars stronger people will only let a summoner in if they can heal thats why when I can become a summoner healing will be secondary to getting my character leveled up. So I'll be fighting right there with the tanks.

[SlizenDize]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

I've never had a problem getting a DD role in a pt as Summoner,

Then you don't need to main heal, so whats the problem?

Always seem to egt invites because I have made a good rep for myself as a DD.

Then you don't need Diablolos, again, whats the problem?
I want diabolos but only because I want to feel that i got everything as a Summoner, not because hes very good.

[aegina]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

there are, what, eighteen jobs in this game right now? with more to be added. out of eighteen jobs there is one-only one-dedicated healer job, and that's white mage. did se really intend 2/3rds of all the pt's formed to have no healer? i don't get it.

we made summoner into a healer job out of a desperate attempt for survival. this game has too many dd's and not enough tanks and healers. i'm sorry, but when i invite a summoner to main heal because there is not one white mage online in the entire server at my level range, and i see him summoning and leaving his pet out to melee, i get really annoyed.

a summoner is one of those useful, versatile jobs. it can heal, backup heal, or dd. a summoner who refuses to heal is a summoner who is limiting what his job can really do-change roles if needed. which is a lot more than some jobs can say.

[Galaxia]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

Each SMN to there own but I really don't see how a non smn can demand anything when they don't do the job.

[Medalink]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

a summoner is one of those useful, versatile jobs. it can heal, backup heal, or dd. a summoner who refuses to heal is a summoner who is limiting what his job can really do-change roles if needed. which is a lot more than some jobs can say.

I have to say i agree. As a Summoner I do anything in the pt I can to speed things up. As SMNs main healing with a NIN tank does not require alot of Cures. We are good about once per 50-60 seconds. Thats when we can do 1 thing, buff, debuff, cure, dmg, etc. In between that time whats the problem with tossing in a few cures? leaving your avatar out for dmg is stupid. Only viable reasoning is to leave it out for TP. And with 40-60 tp MBs are nice.

In ALL my pts I do the same thing no matter why I am invited.

Barfira (Gobs)
Acc, Eva Buff
MB
Cure anytime if needed.

With a NIN tank I dont mind there being no WHM, you, the blm, and the rdm can all share the cures and maybee cast 1-2 per fight if you all 3 work together. I never main heal, I never DD, I allways do EVERYTHING I can.

Honestly haveing a whm in the pt with smn is stupid. That being said ONLY witha NIN tank. I can understand a whm w/PLD but nothing else. Allmost every party I go in either say wow good job, or I never seen a SMN do all that. Thats what I strive to do. Not limit myself cause I can do 200 more dmg by not tossing in a cure III or two.

Medalink

P.S

Each SMN to there own but I really don't see how a non smn can demand anything when they don't do the job.

I am SMN69 and WHM58 So i can state my input. Others can know jobs without playing them.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

To be sure, Diabolos is an excellent addition to a summoner's roster. The Nightmare attack, in addition to his AoE "Phalanx" skill, are extremely useful.

But being without Diabolos is hardly a big loss. Granted, having Fenrir, as well as Diabolos, would be big help, but the other avatars offer enough that a Summoner will always have a place in a party, whether as gimp healer at lower levels, or bitchin' DD at higher levels.

One thing's for sure, you will never see me turn down a Summoner for not having Diabolos.

[SharMarali]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

When I first got Diabolos, I'll admit, I thought he was completely worthless. However, now that I've had some time to mess with him, I find Noctoshield to be a godsend. One of the great curses of SMN is that we ARE usually saddled with main healing, which doesn't bother me in and of itself, but we ONLY HAVE CURE THREE. Works fine with a NIN tank, but it's a bit trickier with a PLD tank, especially one with a relatively small MP pool. Phalanx cuts the damage that PLDs take to a degree such that it's actually EASY to keep them alive with cure 3. We have Eclipticl Howl for NINs and now Noctoshield for PLDs... Just another tool to help us keep the tanks alive ^^

[Galaxia]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

It's a shame the Summoner role isn't like the older games, There always said to be highly respected for the ultimate power of destruction in older games and in 10 they were the ultimate saviour of the world! But I understand they couldn't over power them like the older game there has to be some level of balance even if it means Summoners lose the respect of destruction but we gain the respect of having the ability to do more then a set target. Although SMN used to be slagged off alot before there upgrade now we are looked upto by the other support groups such as RDM. I have had alot of RDM's thank me for helping them with healing etc when a WHM wasn't around. Basicaly show off your damage but show them what else a Summoner can do!

[Karinya]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

SMN still are the ultimate power of destruction... 2-3 times every 2 hours.

Ifrit was never feared for his ability to punch things - his true power is, and always has been, Inferno.

Now, of course, a job's normal playstyle can't be based around its 2hour (something SE recently realized with DRG). So SE added blood pacts to give SMN something to do when they couldn't access the full power of their avatars. And then they added avatar melee, with bonuses for avatar TP.

SMN is an interesting job that can contribute to a party in several ways, but if you try to use them *just* as a substitute WHM, they are a poor substitute. Yet, as you point out, having both a WHM and a SMN is often overly defensive. SMN + RDM is a good combination if the players work well together - the RDM has big cures for emergencies and full strength protects for the tank and puller, and can sub WHM to get bar spells if necessary, while the SMN has the unique SMN abilities and a huge manapool to keep up a steady supply of small cures and the occasional curaga. But if the RDM doesn't know how to adjust (or refuses), the party will do poorly and possibly blame the SMN for not doing everything a WHM is supposed to do - which they can't, of course, because they're not one.

A party doesn't need "a healer". It needs enough healing and protective magic to keep it alive. That can usually be provided by one WHM, or by two or more other characters working together (while each also doing some other things), one of whom may be a SMN. Two "half healers" can be as good as one whole one - in some ways better, since they can rest in shifts and may have stacking buffs.

[Kalel]

Re: Another Reason To Avoid Summoner?

Dont Give up on Summoner yet. Its great job. All Square needs to do is make any new avatars a lvl 60 spell or higher. It will keep people from overflowing job with noobs just to have new pets to show off. And keep away from the fiasco of not having Fenrir keep you from getting party invites. They mess up again with Diabolos as lvl 1 spell. Althought it does have prerequisite of completing COP 3-5 first (beating Diabolos in 40 cap fight).