Sub for WHM

[Icemage]

Re: Sub for WHM

Hm, I didn't give much thought to WHM/BRD. I've honestly never seen it, even from people that I know are bards leveling up their WHM. In parties with no BRD (which is most of them) it might be useful, *if* keeping up other mages' MP is at least as important as keeping up yours. Otherwise it may be worse than auto-refresh, and it may be the person with the extra MP that should be subbing BRD, while you sub either BLM or SMN. Then you can get ballad + conserve MP and rest while they sing. Assuming, in turn, that that wouldn't gimp their emergency usefulness too much by depriving them of heals.

I'd say less than 5% of my XP parties have had a bard (outside of my days levelling Bard myself, that is), so /BRD is a pretty good catch-all sub at 50+. Generally speaking, almost all decent parties in the 50+ range have a red mage as main source of MP regeneration, and the increase in party potency when you leave Ballad I on your RDM is *very* significant, not to mention the extra MP you're giving any BLM, PLD, or DRK in the party. You can also give melees some extra accuracy with Madrigal, which is more than any other sub can do for you (well, you could sub /RDM for Gravity, but it won't land often).

You shouldn't make BRD your only leveled sub though, as it is much less useful if there is a real BRD in party. BLM doesn't have this problem - it is at least good and useful, no matter who else you are with or what you are fighting.

Yes, and this is why a lot of people use /BLM or /SMN, since they aren't dependent on the party configuration. /BRD is really bad when there's a main job bard, but it really shines when there isn't - but 19 times out of 20, there isn't. You should absolutely have either /SMN or /BLM levelled for those occasions when you DO have a main job Bard around though, even if you plan on using /BRD most of the time.

Conserve MP may be, as you point out, a bit less useful to a WHM than to a RDM (since they don't convert, their average MP spent per 10 minutes is probably less than a RDM's - although on the other hand they get to rest a *lot* more, so maybe it isn't. Does anyone have any actual data on total base MP cost of spells cast by a WHM and RDM over the same time period?)

Having levelled both jobs, I can tell you that I unequivocally spend way more MP on RDM than WHM - if I had to guess at it, it's probably close to 50-75% more MP per 10 minutes. I go through my complete Convert cycle MP religiously every 10 minutes, which adds up to about 1300MP spent per 10 minutes on RDM. I didn't spend anywhere near that on WHM, at any level.

10 spells at 10 MP and 1 spell at 100 MP may be the same, but 10 spells at 100 MP are not. That's my point about Conserve MP at higher levels - as your total MP usage per unit time increases, so does your benefit from Conserve MP, but *not* your benefits from Auto Refresh (or Ballad).

True, and that emphasizes the point about Auto-Refresh being not so cool at higher levels, since it pales in comparison to the MP you're using. It's better than nothing, but 1MP for you per 3 seconds from Auto-Refresh isn't nearly as good as 1MP each for you, the PLD, the DRK, the BLM, and the RDM every 3 seconds from Mage's Ballad, or saving ~1/3 of the cost of a spell like Cure V or Regen III.


Icemage

[SharMarali]

Re: Sub for WHM

My smn 66 thief sub 33 can get 160-200 mp off decent challenge spiders in the boyada tree.

With WHM sub I only get 70-100.

So for everyone that's bitching and complaining about what sub to use, why don't you just level all subs? Then try for yourself to see what works best and what doesn't?

If your bitching about not wanting to level a job you won't ever use, you'll be eating those words. I have a lot of subs that I like to use, and even more I want to level up with in the future, when I have time. For now I just want to get to 71 to wear my af2 :D

And if your complaining that your wasting time, I suggest you shut off your computer, go outside and live. FFXI is a time sink.

Uhhh.. No one is "bitching and complaining" about what sub to use. Many of us (self included) HAVE leveled all appropriate SJs. I'm an advocate of WHM/BLM, despite the fact that I'm a 75 SMN. We're merely having a discussion about what SJs work in what situations. If you do not want to participate in the discussion, that is fine, but I see no need for you to interject what is clearly a confrontational and inflammatory post just to say that you disagree with us having this discussion in the first place.

Again... We're just conversing here about what works, what doesn't work, and what works BETTER in various situations. Not "bitching and complaining." This forum is designed for the free exchange of ideas and knowledge. If you don't enjoy the free exchange of ideas and knowledge, I question why you elected to register an account here in the first place.