Sub for WHM

[TGNExtendedGamer]

I have been told by many that Summoner is a great sub-job for WHM. I am a lvl 9 WHM and have been thinking about the future of my character. Those that told me said that the only reason was for the MP. Can someone please explain pros and cons? Thanks a bunch.

[Jei]

Re: Sub for WHM

It's true that summoners have the highest MP in the game. However from 1-24 summoner doesn't get any useful ability just yet. Not enough to outweight blm.

50whm/25smn is when you get the MP-refresh trait from summoner. And a bit later on blinkga. These 2 are good for whm.

/blm offers some other benefits too. like escape and warp which are godly useful when you're finding chest or travelling through dungeons.

[Lythinari]

Re: Sub for WHM

BLM is still a good sub, though I am not one to actually suggest you sub BLM, since mine is not at an acceptable level to sub for my WHM.
/smn is a good choice to sub for WHM, incase of thinking too far ahead, you can use your avatar area buffs for your party members, can be useful if you can chain some of these abilities together and form a blink wall for your party tankw hich maybe a pld.

One extremely good point is that /smn gives you extra clear mind - gives you more MP while you are resting I believe.
At 50 you get auto refresh for your whm, at 51 this becomes useful as you will catch up with MP quite fast.
If you get an item such as an aristocrats coat, clerics briault, royal cloak or any other armor piece with a refresh effect, it stacks with auto refresh.

It is nice to have, but if you are only going to plan to have smn for a subjob, it will be hard to level it up if you dont want to put much effort into getting it to 37.

I think it was a good subjob, I left my blm at a low level and took my smn subjob to 75.

[Karinya]

Re: Sub for WHM

Like all other job traits duplicated between your main and sub jobs, you get only the single best clear mind trait of your main and sub jobs. So I don't think WHM/SMN has any extra clear mind over WHM/something else.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned about WHM/BLM yet is Conserve MP. This is a very powerful ability that can randomly make ANY spell cost much less than its normal MP cost. The more MP worth of spells you cast, the more benefit you get from Conserve MP.

WHM/SMN = Most max MP of all subs, Auto-Refresh (1 mp/3 sec), Aerial Armor (other BPs not useful most of the time).
WHM/BLM = Conserve MP, Sleeps, Escape, Warp, Tractor (other BLM spells not useful most of the time).
WHM/RDM = Fast Cast (improves both casting and recast timers, but the amount you can get from SJ is fairly small), a little less maximum MP, Gravity, Dispel (other RDM spells not useful most of the time or duplicate spells you already have from WHM).
WHM/BRD = Madrigal for melees, Ballad for yourself and other mages. Lowest max MP. Very rare so I can't say much about it from experience. Enfeebling songs (lullaby, threnody, elegy) will probably not stick. Probably not useful if your party has a full bard.

I haven't heard of any other subjobs being useful in ordinary situations. SMN and BLM are the most popular/common subjobs for WHM and it's rare for anyone to ask why you chose them.

Oh yeah, and
WHM/Blue Mage = We'll find out in a few months. It might be worthwhile.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Sub for WHM

I'm not high on /smn for a taru whm. I think we have good enough mp and 99% of the time there is a refresher. I guess one of the reasons that I'm not a fan is that I've seen so many whm/smn's that don't even utilize their /smn abilities. Yes you don't have as many or they aren't as effective but there are times they do come in handy. I have a whm/smn in my hnm ls and I can count on one hand how many times she's utilized her sub. I on the other hand use my /blm sub every single time I exp or do an event.

[Lythinari]

Re: Sub for WHM

My hnm ls uses avatars 99% of the time on /smn we need our smners to DD or stoneskin, I dont know what your talking about.
Not to mention, as /smn you are always using your smn subjob, refresh is always there.
Your clear mind is always there.

Just because you can use escape, warp as /blm doesnt mean that they have no 'aditional' abilities or traits avaliable.

If you wanted to go really radical, you could melee as WHM at a high level with /sam sub and use meditate to refresh your mp =P
quite useful actually.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Sub for WHM

My hnm ls uses avatars 99% of the time on /smn we need our smners to DD or stoneskin, I dont know what your talking about.

Did I say your hnm ls? I said a whm/smn in my hnm ls doesn't utilize her sub. I also stated that most of the /smn's I have pt'd with don't utilize it also. Others experiences may vary but its a common complaint from most of my friends and ls members.

If you wanted to go really radical, you could melee as WHM at a high level with /sam sub and use meditate to refresh your mp =P
quite useful actually.

Huh?? Meditate for mp?

/em walks away shaking her head and mumbling...

[Yossar]

Re: Sub for WHM

Did I say your hnm ls? I said a whm/smn in my hnm ls doesn't utilize her sub. I also stated that most of the /smn's I have pt'd with don't utilize it also. Others experiences may vary but its a common complaint from most of my friends and ls members.




Huh?? Meditate for mp?

/em walks away shaking her head and mumbling...

I think he meant the club weapon skills that give MP, though I could be wrong. I can't imagine it would be that useful.

As for /SMN, you can't really say you don't utilize it as a sub. It's primary roles are MP Boosts and Auto-Refresh. I do agree that Tarus don't really need /SMN, though.

[Darkages]

Re: Sub for WHM

i use smn for sub just because i need the extra mp since im a taru and all.lol but i use it to like just incase i need like a extra spell or extra dmg with like ifrit with spells fire 2 for mb if we dont have a blm which is more often then u think in crawlers nest and i just summon things and pull when the war is to lazy very bad to do but yhe partys im in dont care lol they rather risk me than a thf or a war just bc i have reraise

[TGNExtendedGamer]

Re: Sub for WHM

Ah ok. Thanks for the help. That really helps me out a lot.

[Lythinari]

Re: Sub for WHM

You think SAM is a wierd option to choose for a sub for a mage job?
ever thought of using that sub and putting it into spirit taker or havnt any of you mages leveled staff skill yet?
By far, spirit taker gives more MP over all than what moonlight or starlight would give to the wielder.
Its almost as blunt as saying why should WHM even consider rdm as a subjob if the refresher can dispel anyway, and the rostrum pumps already give fast cast?

Would you critisize that a Warrior cant be a true DD? or that a NIN cant sub BLM to be a ghetto tank & DD along the lines similar to a warrior?

Have you tried it, experienced it?
If you ask in these forums, I bet you that there are some summoners who have subbed Samurai for Summoner, and some radical WHM's which melee that have subbed Sam to meditate spirit taker.

As for SMN subjob and not being utilized, it is always utilized, just because a smner doesnt use their avatars doesnt mean that it as a subjob has no use.

[ibroyles]

Re: Sub for WHM

The only problem with Spirit Taker is on high level mobs, it often times won't hit very hard because of low ATK/STR of mages. It's still a WS that is dependent completely on ATK vs. DEF etc calculations, and even on EP mobs the most I've seen a PLD Spirit Taker for is about 200 plus or minus. So, that's a strategy that may work somewhat effectively on lower level mobs, but I can't see it being much use on HNMs and the like. However I can say I haven't "tried or experienced" it yet, so I could still be proven wrong, however unlikely.

[Lythinari]

Re: Sub for WHM

From VT's and lower, spirit taker hit for 100+
Thats 4 hits with staff, and you can meditate MP.
For HNM's I would agree that it is something that you would not use, considering the higher accuracy that WHM could only dream to reach.

[Kiros]

Re: Sub for WHM

when i did white mage i notced the biggest difference in MP when i subbed Black mage. but in the long run if you think about it... summoner may get you a few extra MP point but it'd be much more useful to have a few black magic tricks up your sleeve for occasions, i just could never see anyone sacrificing drain II for Shiva ><;;;;;;;

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Sub for WHM

As for SMN subjob and not being utilized, it is always utilized, just because a smner doesnt use their avatars doesnt mean that it as a subjob has no use.

Ya and my /blm sub is being utilized too even if I don't use the enfeebles, aspir, drain, escape, etc. But if I'm on a hunt with my ls and I don't utilize my /blm sub by using those spells then I'm not fully living up to my potential am I? A whm/smn that doesn't use their summons for the betterment of their pt isn't living up to their potential either. 99% of the whm/smns I've pt'd with fall into that catagory, yet only 25% of the whm/blms do. And I never said the subjob had no use so stop twisting my words. I said that most of the /smn's I've pt'd with did use their subjob. Thats entirely different.

As for whm/sam, no thanks. There isn't enough of a benefit to even use it. Even I would use /smn before /sam.