Summoning Magic Skill

[Medalink]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

I said my damage was Consistantly hitting for that much, I never took in account for the criticals. I did see hits from 20-40 on Criticals. There are alot of vaibles that will make my damage different than yours. I was not seeing fake numbers.

On the side of BP Testing I was unable to finish due to the server being down, will finish up tonight if its back up.

Medalink

[Enialas]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

<snip>
I'll say this one more time:
If summoning magic skill made as big of a difference as some people says it does... ("WOW, really... I guess Carby (or other Avatar) being to take more than one hit or being able to hit mob for more than 0 damage just isn't worth it to you? Like everyone Else running around in what they wore in the dunes.") Wouldn't you think that it would be something so blatantly obvious to notice in a party that they'd be booted after a few fights?
<snip>

well considering almost all smns on my server just summon BP and dismiss, I don't think it'll be noticable at all. Me on the other hand I would leave Carby out to fight. And when I'd level and the pt would start fighting tougher opponents Carby would make less and less of a difference. but another smn in same gear and Carby would keep in the race. that person would stand outside of Selbina summoning Carby for hours at a time. Coincidence?

also saying you have to be a 75smn or your opinion on smn skill doesn't mean squat also could mean that if you aren't a 75blm in AFv2 your opinion on a 0 elemental skill vs a 200 elemental skill means squat as well, oh nm, b/c the pt actually sees the difference since blms dont blinkga/stoneskinga and heal the rest of the time.

[Medalink]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

Allright guys this is not about who is right or who is wrong, this is starting to turn into a bashing thread. This thread is made to try and determine some of the effects of SMN Skill. Pleas stay on that. I dont care if you think I am right or wrong, you did not awsner and I began my own tests, dont like it? Stop reading this thread! And STOP Arguieing on other subjects.

If you dont have anything to either support the theroy of SMN Skill helping Avatars or to dismiss it then please dont post. Please have done some testing and do not post what you think, only what you can back up in Results. Levels dont really matter its the SMN skill thats in question. And Just Beacuse I am not lvl 75 does not mean I cant figure out something a 75 can. Jobs dont work on lvls they work on skills. I for one would like to be the best possible SMN I can, and if SMN Skill is in any way help this than by all means I will cap it. It has it's uses, one way or the other.

[Edit] Someones stealing my gill... What a low life.. Like it really matters....

Medalink

[Enialas]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

sorry Medalink, just trying to patiently await the results.

I was just trying to give the "haven't spent hours leveling the summoning magic skill" side of the story. Just watching Carby do next to nothing and dying w/ 1 hit against EP makes me cringe at sending him when I do the Solo Avatar battles. Shiva whupps Carby too fast.

My third time in I actually got off Astral Flow and Shining umm I forgot the name of it lol. it's saved in a macro, when I get home I'll look at it again.

[Medalink]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

Thats Searling Light, Shiva is hard to beat solo but it is possible. Just keep trying.

Medalink

[Enialas]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

Thats Searling Light, Shiva is hard to beat solo but it is possible. Just keep trying.

Medalink

yeah, thanks. I was thinking Shining Light but I knew I got the "Shining" from "Shining Ruby."

I heard she's one of the hardest. Maybe I should focus on one of the other Avatars first. >.>

but in another report I had heard your Summoning Magic Skill must be maxed, so that's a reason I'm waiting on the findings.

[Medalink]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

I can tell you I beat Shiva, Titan, and Garuda With SMN Skill 50. Take 3 Yagodo Drinks, 5 Hi-potions and 3 Ethers. Wait till 3/4 HP and start with the Asteal Flow. O and eat defensive food.

GL

Medalink

[Tirrock]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

I said that a level 75 would generally know more because they've spend more time on the job. I used to be one of those summoners you saw out in batallia (I liked the music there) leveling summoning magic skill for hours on end. The whole time, I didn't see a point to it, so eventually I just stopped...and not surprisingly, I saw no real damage difference. I even made it to 70 like that (again, nobody can tell the difference...kind of proves that it doesn't do MUCH, if anything, not like the difference between hitting for 0 and 20).

At 70, I was convinced that because of my low summoning magic skill, my damage would be gimp. I leveled purely in summoner parties from 70-72. My damage definately did not match anybody higher level (actual level, not skill), but it did match players equal level to me. For the most part at least. There is always a bit of a damage spread on level 70 blood pacts, even the one hit ones. (Mountain busters for like 800-1100 on non-crits, the crits hitting 1500+, all from the same summoner/avatar.)

And I wasn't counting critical hits.

I ran out on my level 36THF to get an idea of what level things were, then ran out on my WHM/SMN.

On a weapon that checked T to my THF, carbuncle hit for 12-15. This is something much higher level than the "EP goblins" that the other tests were on, and it has protect on.

I also found a level 36 (EM to 36) goblin pathfinder. Carbuncle hit that for 17-21.

EP to 36 goblin smithy, carbuncle hit 20-36. (I'm not counting critical hits either.) The average damage was around 30.

DC to 36 goblin furrier: 18-26

EP to 36 goblin shaman: 18-28 Most were around the low 20s, with an oddball hit for 28. (Again, I haven't counted a critical hit yet.)

Those were what I did my tests on. I also noticed that goblin leechers/muggers/gamblers were EP also. I fought a few of them, but I didn't log the damage dealt to them. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were fighting high EPs/DCs, as those would hurt my results the most. On the low EP goblins, the damage was obviously higher.

I'll edit this post and add in screenshots once I'm done downloading the FFXI update and am done being distracted by all the updates.

I'll do what I can to leave this topic alone after that though. I've voiced my (rather loud) opinion about this for the sake of trying to save people some time, but it did get out of hand and I did start to do it just to prove somebody wrong. Which definately wasn't the right reason to go about this.

[Medalink]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

And your SMN Skill?

Medalink

[Tirrock]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

114 at /37SMN. I don't think that 4 summoning magic skill levels will make a drastic difference.

Edit: Couple of screenshots.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...5-09-00015.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...5-09-00017.jpg

[SharMarali]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

As for SharMarali's post... I personally disagree that players and avatars have any connection other than the summoner's level. From the sound of your post, you probably just had a partial miss. And, if you didn't have a miss (and you're sure of it), then the damage difference could easily be answered by how there's a good 200-300 damage difference on blood pacts (single hit blood pacts even) on the same exact monsters, same exact days, and they don't have defense buffs...
Leviathan can do 350-650 damage blood pacts on the same kirin, then crit for 800-1000. Since it's a one hit blood pact, it's not like it's multiple hits critical hitting on the ones near 1k damage.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, at least until I can come up with some more conclusive evidence than a BCNM run.

Now, can the rest of you please agree to disagree too? This could've been a really useful thread for people doing searches on summoning magic skill, but alas, it's turned into a bunch of people at each others' throats for no good reason. Please try to treat others with respect. Thank you.

[Jokerboy1]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

Why Cant We Be Friends.... Why Cant We Be Friends >_<

[Grissom]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

*Strangles Shar*

She's right, everyone deserves respek knuckles >.>
-> http://respek.ytmnd.com/ <-

[Jokerboy1]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

OMG LOL i watched taht for 5 mins.. lol

[SlizenDize]

Re: Summoning Magic Skill

I know some melee who subscribe to your line of thought, SlizenDize. Nobody invites them to party. After all, why bother buying great armor when you're just going to sell it 5 levels later and have to go out farming to finance the next, more expensive set? After all, you'll get all the greatest gear once you hit 75 sooner or later.

In fact, I know kids whose logic is as impeccable and undeniable as yours. Why take a bath? I'm just going to get dirty again.

The answer to that question (the gear and summoning skill one--the bath question was merely satire) is that people want to be as effective as possible at every level, not just the final one. More importantly, the rest of the team, the people it is your responsibility to support to the best of your ability, expect you to perform to your maximum potential because they do too. I am honestly ashamed that you would take advantage of your party members by neglecting a skill they can't /check. It only asks for time, not for farming or NM hunting that may or may not pay off, and not for absolute proficiency.

If somebody just tries to have good gear, a party will invite them. It's when they show they have no regard at all for their team members by not wearing even one good piece of armor that they are passed over. Likewise, if somebody even tries to keep within 5% of their cap, I'll respect them for trying.

As for Medalink's test, it is all but conclusive. There are a lot of variables, but I think the amount of gob's tested against gave a good overall view of how it works. My only real concern is on skill ups during the tests affecting results--especially at the beginning when dual casts were required. Otherwise it seems pretty definitive: notice how carby's damage range averaged 4, 3, and 4 on each run; showing us that its attack allowed for several low hits on the first run, its attack roughly equalled the enemy's defense for more consistent hits on the second run, and actually started to expand the delta for a larger damage range on the third run. In addition, generic equations shows the damage on the third run is 40% higher than on the first and that Carby lost 40% less health. When you consider that 40% more damage output only decreases fight time by 29%, that means Carby was more resilient, not just taking less hits.

Now if we could just get some solid tests on BP.

I'm sorry if I explain bad or something but you don't seem to get what I mean.

What I mean is that in terms of time you will get higher Summoning Magic is less time if you level up than if you keep summoning over and over simply because if you are a few levels below it level up much faster. I agree that you want to be most efficient for your level but at my level you get about one Summoning level each hour. To get 10 Summoning Magic skills it would require 10 hours. Why not just spend 30mins farming 20k and buy a torque giving 10 to summoning magic skill? Items giving to Summoning Magic is very cheap for a reason. No one have ever seen any noticable difference when it comes to abilities. Let's say each skill add 10hp to the avatars max hp. So what? My avatars never reach zero hp anyway unless I solo and solo isnt fun unless your lvl 70+ and by that time your Summoning Magic have almost reached up to your level anyway.

I havent leveled my Summoning Magic since I was level 30 and people do not care about that. They care about wherther I got Fenrir, wherther I got Light and Dark staff, wherther I got Evokers Ring and so on. And I do, when it comes to items I do have really good equipments, I definetly do not think of myself as gimp I think of myself as a åretty good Summoner compared to others my own level.

The Armor example you give is very different. It's more like I'm not getting any avatars until level 75 because then I can solo them. I mean I play melee jobs aswell, ofcourse I keep my armors up to date but seriously there hasn't been a single party and i'm talking during my whole FFXI experience. There hasnt been One single party judging any Summoner I know from their Summoning Magic level.

The only time I have been asked my level is when other Summoners wants to compare themself to me and then the differences arent much at all since no one level it at these levels, atleast not on Quetzalcoatle. It's not about being lazy, it's about being effective. If you level instead you get more result in less time and without knowing it your Summoning Magic is capped aswell without any special time spent in it.