Summoner Advice Plz

[grunion]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

Do whatever they want you to? If that's the case then go make a Whitemage, because more than likely they'll only want you for healing unless you lay down the law for them to know otherwise. People play Summoners to summon, and if a party can't handle that, then you probably have no business teaming with them. I would go on but, my senpai worded it so beautifully, there's no need to post further.... *points up to tazirai's post*

read my post again. you'll spend a few weeks leveling, then months (or perhaps years) as 70+ smn. it's more important to get the XP than create arguments with your party leader or pass up opportunities to get XP because you insist on doing your job correctly. the point of the XP party (for most people i think) is to get XP, not to have fun doing aerial armor or whatever over and over.

if having fun in the XP party is more important than actually getting XP, then you should ignore my advice. it's just my opinion, nothing more.

[tazirai]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

read my post again. you'll spend a few weeks leveling, then months (or perhaps years) as 70+ smn. it's more important to get the XP than create arguments with your party leader or pass up opportunities to get XP because you insist on doing your job correctly. the point of the XP party (for most people i think) is to get XP, not to have fun doing aerial armor or whatever over and over.

if having fun in the XP party is more important than actually getting XP, then you should ignore my advice. it's just my opinion, nothing more.

I want to agree with you but I cant. Heres why, An exp PT isnt simply for you to get EXP. Its to learn your job and the abilities that go along with them as you grow stronger. Pt's can be fun and not simply all about business. I dont want a Summoner to join me in a ENM or BCNM or mission Fight if all they can do is heal, or Aerial armor. A GOOD Summoner will eb able to do many things not simply get exp.

Do you know any summoners that would make excellent pullers? Me!!
A summoner pullign has advantages that other jobs dont, Sneak, Invisi, elementals, Aggro control, aquaveil, etc. But a Summoner that only knows to heal because they want 4k exp, will suck. Kiting is also something a Summoner is good at. Ill take one for the team and get aggro to make sure we dont get wiped with kiting.

The reason so many people suck at playing at higher levels is that they dont have experience , just experience points.

[silentsteel]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

Do you know any summoners that would make excellent pullers? Me!!
A summoner pullign has advantages that other jobs dont, Sneak, Invisi, elementals, Aggro control, aquaveil, etc. But a Summoner that only knows to heal because they want 4k exp, will suck. Kiting is also something a Summoner is good at. Ill take one for the team and get aggro to make sure we dont get wiped with kiting.

heh, I've pulled & kited stuff already & I'm only lvl 19. Showed that pt right, keeping them alive. . . yeesh & they still got mad at me. ~_~

[Arris]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

I want to agree with you but I cant. Heres why, An exp PT isnt simply for you to get EXP. Its to learn your job and the abilities that go along with them as you grow stronger. Pt's can be fun and not simply all about business. I dont want a Summoner to join me in a ENM or BCNM or mission Fight if all they can do is heal, or Aerial armor. A GOOD Summoner will eb able to do many things not simply get exp.

Do you know any summoners that would make excellent pullers? Me!!
A summoner pullign has advantages that other jobs dont, Sneak, Invisi, elementals, Aggro control, aquaveil, etc. But a Summoner that only knows to heal because they want 4k exp, will suck. Kiting is also something a Summoner is good at. Ill take one for the team and get aggro to make sure we dont get wiped with kiting.

The reason so many people suck at playing at higher levels is that they dont have experience , just experience points.

I think I love you ~!
Can you come play on my server?

Double Post Edited:

Ill give you some advice, but depending on your personality and reputation, this may work for or against you.
i notice this heal>heal>heal> role mode mainly in NA style PT setups, Not saying JP PT right or wrong, it's just something I notice. The only two common buffs I normally throw a PT is listed below and the reason.

yeah JP PT tend to use SMN, WHM, RDMs as they were intended to. Like Tazirai was saying (IN THE BOLD).

[kuu]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

I think I love you ~!
Can you come play on my server?

Double Post Edited:


yeah JP PT tend to use SMN, WHM, RDMs as they were intended to. Like Tazirai was saying (IN THE BOLD).

Sorta, if you need a whm, then yes, if not

smn, rdm, blm is the ideal for nin tanks.

Big booms, fast pulls, and quick kills makes it easy for a nin to tank.

And 70% of pts that want a smn to only heal would only hope to get 4k an hour...it would be more like 2.5k if they're not picking up slack enough for the smn to do other things.

[Arris]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

Sorta, if you need a whm, then yes, if not

smn, rdm, blm is the ideal for nin tanks.

Big booms, fast pulls, and quick kills makes it easy for a nin to tank.

And 70% of pts that want a smn to only heal would only hope to get 4k an hour...it would be more like 2.5k if they're not picking up slack enough for the smn to do other things.

Actually I find it doesn't matter really who's main heal for exp/hr, fast pulls and fast kills even with pld or nin tank.I've been in alot of speed kill parties with NIN tank and PLD playing either as WHM or RDM. Fact of the matter a WHM cure 1,2, or 3 will cure for more. The whole point of WHM is to cure, but since nobody seems to want WHM as main cure should WHM just nuke? Or better yet sub some DD job and melee. Yes MP does sometimes effect the rate of which mobs is killed, so MP wise wouldn't it be better for WHM to cure 2 or RDM/SMN to cure 2? Even with stat boosting equips/foods I still really wouldn't want to main cure as SMN or RDM.

[kuu]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

Actually I find it doesn't matter really who's main heal for exp/hr, fast pulls and fast kills even with pld or nin tank.I've been in alot of speed kill parties with NIN tank and PLD playing either as WHM or RDM. Fact of the matter a WHM cure 1,2, or 3 will cure for more. The whole point of WHM is to cure, but since nobody seems to want WHM as main cure should WHM just nuke? Or better yet sub some DD job and melee. Yes MP does sometimes effect the rate of which mobs is killed, so MP wise wouldn't it be better for WHM to cure 2 or RDM/SMN to cure 2? Even with stat boosting equips/foods I still really wouldn't want to main cure as SMN or RDM.

How the the whm cure for more? There's a cure cap on all spells. They have more spells, like regen 2 and 3 and cure 4, but in terms of pure healing, it's equal.

A smn with a light staff or without will cure just the same as a whm. The only excuse you can make is if they use a medicine ring, or other whm only cure+ like a noble.

NO a whm isn't there to just cure. Whm take up the slack of other "holes" just like any other job but that's another thread.

Smn DD does matter. A MB of 240 or more means 240 or more faster kill. Most MBs can do that range per fight. If the monster is harder then that, and another Timer is ready, you will push it to 400 DD. Pre 60 of course, IV spells can do heck of a more damage.

Defensive buffs is self-explanatory.

In a fight Everything matters. Your kidding yourself if just healing and curing will net you easy 4k. If you can get 4k, then you can get 5k etc. That's the exact situation why you take up the slack of bad pt members. "I'm only here to refresh and dispel, it doesn't matter anyway" Will mean a bad rdm who rarely converts, won't MB and will be like fighting with 5.2 members.

Your line of thought is exactly what this thread is oppose to, people who sit back, and do the minium, not the maxium. Everyone expecting someone else to pick up the slack. If the whole PT does it, then you got a sterotypical bad pt.

[Tirrock]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

Okay... I had a very long ranting post, but I figured I'd save everybody the pain of reading worthless ranting and a very negative post and just write this instead.

I agree with a bit of many things said, to a point. Like many things, it's situational.

Grunion has a point that you should do what the party expects. They don't want you to play around at the cost of their exp. However, if they expect you to cure only, they're probably not right. Without a WHM in the party, you can still do blood pacts almost every time they're up. Also, you have to have enough knowledge about your job to be able to tell if they're right or not. If they're wanting you to use rolling thunder and crimson howl all the time... Listen to that alarm going off in the back of your head saying that something isn't right here.

And, like Kuu said, it's important to weigh the benefits of the blood pacts vs what else you can do. You must consider what each blood pact will do for the party that's helpful. If only one person would get benefit from Aerial Armor (like the tank keeps hate well, or all the melees are subbing NIN), then it's pretty pointless to use it. If the monster has no AoE and the tank keeps hate...it's fairly useless to earthen ward them unless they're a NIN. Also have to weigh in if a damaging blood pact would end the fight and save more MP/save the exp chain than the defensive blood pacts. Same thing goes with ecliptic howl/growl, and really...every single blood pact you have.

For summoners needing to learn how to do certain skills... This I disagree on. Really, there aren't that many skills that can't be easily explained by anybody that knows them (avatar pulling). Others only take a bit of common sense/basic knowledge of the job. Hopefully anybody leveling SMN has both. (Unfortunately, I've seen many new SMNs that hit level 75 without either...)

Edit:
Oh right, I forgot to do my obligitory correcting of Kuu. How could I forget that?

Cures have a soft cap, not a set-in-stone-you'll-never-pass-this-cap. My cure III as WHM does more than my cure III as SMN. Not much. But it's a difference. The real advantage of a WHM main healer over a SMN main healer, at least at high levels, is that WHM can cure V/regen III and rest, instead of spamming cure IIIs.

[SharMarali]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

Heh...

I don't even know where to begin or what to say.

I feel very sorry for anyone who doesn't have fun in an exp PT. I can't even begin to imagine raising a job to 75, or for that matter even to 50, that I don't enjoy playing. There are instances when it's necessary to raise a job to 37 that you don't really care for (for example, I raised NIN to 37 and absolutely loathed every moment of it) - But you get to a point where those levels come further and further apart and the level grind can take over and numb your mind pretty quick if you don't love what you're doing.

I can't even imagine having taken SMN or RDM or even WAR to the level I took it to if I hadn't loved it. Are there PTs where I don't have fun? Sure. Is that the standard for me? Nope. If I'm CONSISTENTLY not having fun in exp PTs with a particular job, it's time to COMPLETELY re-evaluate why I'm leveling that job and whether I really want to continue. That's why I quit WAR at 62. I realized I hadn't been having fun since about level 58.

FFXI is not a job. It's not a chore. It's not something you HAVE to do. It's something you do for fun. You're paying to do it. If you're not having fun at it, or if you're spending hours and hours and hours and hours not having fun because you think maybe you might have some fun down the road when you're trying to acquire godly equipment for a job you never liked in the first place...

Well, then I feel sorry for you.

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and as for the "high level noob" phenomenon, as I like to refer to it...

Tazarai is correct. The reason we see so many 70+ players who don't know how to play their jobs is because they have experience points, not experience. I've never heard that better said.

I think a big part of this, though, is from the mentality that a person needs to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get their job to 75. People have stopped realizing that there are a LOT of things a person can do in the 60's, the 50's, even the 40's and 30's. People are in such a hurry to level up and become "godly" that they don't take the time to smell the roses so to speak, to learn their jobs properly, to see all the nuances and to see the benefits of having THIS job in the PT with THAT job and how they can work together in harmony.

I've LONG frowned upon the concept of PLing an entire PT. OK, there are instances when you're raising a job only as a SJ and you don't particularly care whether you learn it or not, I understand that. But having someone PL an entire PT, to me, is just taking the cheap and easy way out. This is ANOTHER part of the problem for me. Suddenly, all these people are reaching level 40 and they can't really be PLed so easily anymore. Now the WHMs have to learn MP conservation and the BLMs have to learn hate management, the NINs have to learn how to tank, the SAMs have to learn how to make sure they have enough TP for a SC even though they're going free every other time. The list goes on. These are ALL things people should begin learning in Valkurm and continue learning through Qufim and Kazham and should be fairly ADEPT at by the time they reach 40. Instead, people are just learning it for the first time when they reach the 40's because they were PL'd 1-39. Now they have to spend the next 20 levels learning what in the world they're doing, because they didn't spend the last 20 levels doing it. So you essentially have massive groups of people who don't have a CLUE how to REALLY work together until they're level 60.

Anyway.. My PL rant is pretty much irrelevant to the topic at hand.

In conclusion, you should cooperate with your PT but you should also do what you feel is fun and what you feel is the correct thing to do. You shouldn't be too proud to cure, but you shouldn't be afraid to summon. A true summoner listens to their heart, not their ego or their fears.

[grunion]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

the point of my post wasn't that you should accept not having fun in EVERY xp party. my point was simply that when you get invited by someone that asks you to play your job in a way you don't want to, rather than arguing or disbanding, just go with the flow, get a little xp, and hope your next party is better. i'm sorry i wasn't clear because it seems several people have misinferred what i said.

[tazirai]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

the point of my post wasn't that you should accept not having fun in EVERY xp party. my point was simply that when you get invited by someone that asks you to play your job in a way you don't want to, rather than arguing or disbanding, just go with the flow, get a little xp, and hope your next party is better. i'm sorry i wasn't clear because it seems several people have misinferred what i said.

I Know i understood you correctly,cant speak for anyone else, but The thing is Grunion,People arent mindless.
Ive joined PT's for mission BC's where I wanted to go as one job,but the PT required another. if I could id do everything as a Summoner,But I cant.
But that doesnt mean I cant offer input.
If you are a skilled player let your PT know, tell them you can do other things.
To me its not okay to just let the exp flow and hope for better in another PT.

The Reason:Complacency, you'll get used to hoping for a better PT, then another better PT, and so forth. You can add input in a way that isnt argumentative and disrepectful. if you have a leader that wont listen then you shouldnt be in that PT.
its been my experience that if i send a tell to a leader privately and tell them what I can do, Im Usually ableto do it especially if im showing skill at it.

Complacency (Thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass)

[grunion]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

i never said you shouldn't try to do your job the way you want to. i was just responding to the original poster

I know when WHM runs out of MP that I need to take over healing but I don't wanna go from 4o to 70 just been main healer!

that when necessary just take the XP and accept being a healer.

[tazirai]

Re: Summoner Advice Plz

that when necessary just take the XP and accept being a healer.

/agree^^