Meleeing Smn's

[tazirai]

Re: Meleeing Smn's

I have a lot of respect for you Tazirai, but why use /RDM instead of /WHM? Elemental nuke magic bursts will hit for very low damage, debuffs will almost never land, even on elements that XP-worth enemies are weak to.

Aside from Dispel (which does have some tactical use even when used as a sub on a job that doesn't have any intrinsic Enfeebling Magic - vs. Crawlers for instance, which are weak to Dark magic and love throwing up Coccoon), SMN don't get any benefits from /RDM over /WHM other than 2 Fast Cast traits that don't help their avatars, a worthless Resist Petrify trait, a handful of pointless nukes, and a bunch of enfeebles that won't stick.

I tried /RDM sub on Bard for a while, and while it's fun to be casting faster, it really wasn't worth the loss in flexibility. Nukes never did any appreciable damage, enfeebles almost never stuck, and if they did they'd wear off almost instantly.

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I don't really have an issue with SMN that melee intelligently. SMN have good Staff skill, and can even pull off self-SC sometimes with their avatar (especially as they're the only mage that can basically gear up in all melee/accuracy gear and not have it affect their magical performance in the slightest). Basically only if it puts the SMN in harm's way for AoE does it ever really become a major issue.

Post-51 when you're swapping staves like Elton John changes glasses, it's not as effective, but can still be done. As long as it isn't endangering yourself or the party, it's not totally inadvisable, but just remember that elemental staves aren't exactly the kings of damage...


Icemage

Well I went thru " I wont level WHM cuz I hate it forever and a day Syndrome, and its boring to all tears..blah blah blah" So when I was leveling SMn I used rdm , Dispel came in VERY handy since I exped on crabs and things that used lotta of buffs. It wasnt for the MB from RDM that I subbed it. Even though Everynow and then Id hit a 50-100 or so MB with no resist.

For Debuff I only used Dia. Phalanx helped me for AOE damage reduction. I finally levelled whm respectfully. Because I'd be a hypocrite to say WHM blah blah blah without actually having it.
I do use WHM 80% of the time now. Simply for teleports and other things that arent self buffs. But When I solo NM's or Missions sometimes I will use RDM or BLM over WHM.

I think for a Summoner to REALLY be good at his/her job/. They need to be able to use ALL their available SJ's for a variety of reasons. For instance When in an all Sumoner Party, I can use /brd for ballad one . And I tell the mages to use Juice to help on every other mons.

People fail to realise that each Job can have its uses if you apply yourself and not simply go with common logic persay.

So while I agree that whm is the better SJ than RDM, its not the only one. You just need to learn how to use it at the right time. No such thing as a bad SJ in my opinion . its all abotu the application and the Situation.. When I was in the military we learned to use what we had available. So basically an AR-10 was the best weapon to have ,but if you didnt have one learn to take the bullet apart and make bombs ^^.

Same thign with the avatars, people just say use this one or that, but a true Summoner will use ALL of his powers,not just a few.

As for melee I only use two staves so I dun switch out very much since I only have apollo and Pluto. But as i said in another thread melee should be left to the melee. If you can juggle both more power to you, if not save it for the last chain.

[Kamui]

Re: Meleeing Smn's

Well I went thru " I wont level WHM cuz I hate it forever and a day Syndrome, and its boring to all tears..blah blah blah" So when I was leveling SMn I used rdm , Dispel came in VERY handy since I exped on crabs and things that used lotta of buffs. It wasnt for the MB from RDM that I subbed it. Even though Everynow and then Id hit a 50-100 or so MB with no resist.

For Debuff I only used Dia. Phalanx helped me for AOE damage reduction. I finally levelled whm respectfully. Because I'd be a hypocrite to say WHM blah blah blah without actually having it.
I do use WHM 80% of the time now. Simply for teleports and other things that arent self buffs. But When I solo NM's or Missions sometimes I will use RDM or BLM over WHM.

I think for a Summoner to REALLY be good at his/her job/. They need to be able to use ALL their available SJ's for a variety of reasons. For instance When in an all Sumoner Party, I can use /brd for ballad one . And I tell the mages to use Juice to help on every other mons.

People fail to realise that each Job can have its uses if you apply yourself and not simply go with common logic persay.

So while I agree that whm is the better SJ than RDM, its not the only one. You just need to learn how to use it at the right time. No such thing as a bad SJ in my opinion . its all abotu the application and the Situation.. When I was in the military we learned to use what we had available. So basically an AR-10 was the best weapon to have ,but if you didnt have one learn to take the bullet apart and make bombs ^^.

Same thign with the avatars, people just say use this one or that, but a true Summoner will use ALL of his powers,not just a few.

As for melee I only use two staves so I dun switch out very much since I only have apollo and Pluto. But as i said in another thread melee should be left to the melee. If you can juggle both more power to you, if not save it for the last chain.

I basically agree with all of this. I only sub WHM because I wouldn't be able to Cure III with /RDM, yet. (and it's hard enough to keep up with Cure III's already) In honesty, subbing /WHM for cures and -na spells is basically it. SMNs debuffing is pretty much pointless, you're debuffing with spells that are only strong enough to effect mobs half your current level(or more, I can barely debuff upto DC or EM mobs -.-).

Although I could just be speaking from a spoiled point-of-view, seeing as how 90% of the PTs I go into have a WHM, for some weird reason or another, but meleeing isn't a big deal(as long as nobody in the PT minds). I don't do it every battle because of my rediculously underleveled staff (only 110ish. -.- Kinda bad for a Lv57. I try to level it up in PTs, but I hardly hit the thing).

The squirrel is better than most people think. Right now with Meteorite, Carby outdamages my other avatars. >>; Carby gains TP as he fights, too, so that means I can do Healing Ruby and cure for more, which stacked with Cure III is good for desperate times(or just saving MP). On top of that, I've noticed with avatars out actually fighting (which I normally leave them out to fight until BP is cooled off) the mob actually does die faster.

In all honesty, I think I'm the most SMNy Summoner I've ever met. Even when I'm supposed to be main heal you wont find me intentionally doing it. Being a RDM(on average I debuff, enhance, Refresh, haste, Dispel[every-so-often incase I missed something] and throw in cures when the WHM needs it or just because I see someone is in yellow HP), multi-tasking like a madman comes second-nature to me. I've been a main healer as RDM before... and once the only other mage was a BLM. >.>

Well, that's a different story. But in short, really, it comes down to preference and the mob you're fighting.

If you prefer to melee, melee (just beware of the mob's abilities).

If you prefer to stand back, do so.


I am still looking for what a Summoner's true purpose is.

But then I've gotta remind myself, we're like water. We mold to fill what the PT lacks, we don't have a spot reserved for us otherwise. lol

The most and only imporant thing to a Summoner is to remember to do your job. Never forget what gap it is you're filling, because if you forget, that's like the NIN or PLD forgetting they're tanking. The PT just wont work as fluently.

[tazirai]

Re: Meleeing Smn's

I am still looking for what a Summoner's true purpose is.

I think you found it already, It just hasnt slapped you yet ^^.
I see it clearly in your post!!

I have deep respect and love for the job, Most people in my LS rarely ever complain about their chosen job, simply because of the love and experience they have for it. Most people choose the popular jobs either to level fast or to get into an HNMLS. I leveled Summoner for the love of the job.^^
I find myself more helpful and beneficial to myself and others as a Summoner than I did as a Red Mage.

Our Purpose is to help our friends succeed thereby we succeed^^(sappy aint it)

[Kamui]

Re: Meleeing Smn's

I think you found it already, It just hasnt slapped you yet ^^.
I see it clearly in your post!!

I have deep respect and love for the job, Most people in my LS rarely ever complain about their chosen job, simply because of the love and experience they have for it. Most people choose the popular jobs either to level fast or to get into an HNMLS. I leveled Summoner for the love of the job.^^
I find myself more helpful and beneficial to myself and others as a Summoner than I did as a Red Mage.

Our Purpose is to help our friends succeed thereby we succeed^^(sappy aint it)

Lol, I answered myself below that line. ;P
Although, I kinda like your answer more. It's more solid and simpler than mine. XD
I'd have to agree though. I also leveled SMN for the fun of it. >>; It's alot of work(sometimes a chore, as my friend says), but that wont change my opinion as far as how fun the job is. Gotta love having someone else beat the crap out of mobs for you. XD
I find myself kinda balanced between RDM and SMN. What I go with depends on the situation.
RDM is a bit easier on me in PTs though, because it's like we have a half reserved space, and then the other half is us filling what is needed.

[Kalel]

Re: Meleeing Smn's

I play Summoner for the love of the job as well. Its a fun job to play. I love having mystical pets and keeps reminded its a Final Fantasy althought its online. I enjoyed Yuna in Final Fantaxy 10. So its really no problem being SMN/WHM in game for me. For me Summoner will be my main job the whole game.

[Jokerboy1]

Re: Meleeing Smn's

3 cheers for KALEL! ugh yea.. i really have nothing else. to say.. i dotn really know what this thread is about.. i didnt take time to read it... its so long -_-.. ima go lvl smner now.. weee!