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  • Vermillion cloak vs Juice

    I got bored on my self debate on if the V.cloak is worth it or not.

    So in my infinite boredom I've crunched the following numbers very roughly on a bar napkin so please excuse any rounding errors and generalizations within a tolerance of 1 decimal place.

    v.cloak available at lv 59

    exp require to get to lv 75 from lv 59 ~ 475,000. Rounded to 500,000 just to factor in deaths and some buffer exp at lv 75.
    I forget the exact numbers but I'm sure it's posted somewhere.

    at a very average pt set up exp/hr estimated to be 4k/hr just to be on the slow side. (faster exp/hr actually hurts the v.cloak buying power potential)

    so 500,000/ 4,000 -> 125 hours of fighting time in exp party.

    2 kazham pineapples and water crystals makes 1 pineapple juice which gives the same 1mp/3 sec w/o too much inventory space.
    Costs me about 220 gil to make and lasts 4 minutes.

    If I drank pineapple juice for the entireity of my lving time, it would take: 125hr x 60 min / 4 min/juice = 1875 bottles
    @ 220 gil per bottle, that gives me roughly a bill of 412,500 gil.

    Vermillion cloak will cost me 5,700,000
    drinking juice non stop for every minute of exp partying will cost me 412,500

    Net savings of 5,287,500 gil. for almost the same effect as a v.cloak.

    Of course you say: but juice doesn't stack with rdm yet the cloak will.

    In these cases, yes, a rdm + cloak > juice
    However, I must qualify that since I was lv 39, within range of a rdm with refresh pt standard, I have had exactly 2 rdm's in my parties and now I'm lv 55. So basically for 16 levels, I have not been able to convince many a rdm to join my pt or had a pt with a rdm in it.

    Most of the time I'm either the only mage (probably why I got the exp pt invite in the first place maybe >.>?) or at best a blm and surprisingly enough, about 4 pt's where there was already a whm.

    I'm pretty much ticked off when I did the math of this. For the rare occassions when I can actually manage to find a rdm to pt with, sure the cloak is nice. But for me, 7/8 of the time, I'll be my own MP battery and a v.cloak is just as good as chugging juices nonstop for hours on end. Inventory takes a hit but how much inventory can you buy for an extra 5.2 million gil savings?

    All the gobbie bags together won't cost that much.

    Of course I can always get the cloak and chug juice but if I had 6.1 million gil to throw around, I might as well buy a scorp harness or just go craft with that money. 5.2 million will get you pretty far in pretty much any craft save goldsmithing. But still pretty far even then.
    75/bst, 60/smn, 51/rdm, 46/whm, 40/blm, 37/nin, 37/thf, 37/war, 32/sam, 25/brd, 10/pld, 7/mnk


  • #2
    But what about if you're just standing the...
    ..erm, what about if you...
    ...ah, but what about...

    ...

    ...lets face it, you're absoluately right. Even factoring in the cost it would take you to level Cooking to the point where you can craft Pineapple Juice reliably, you're still saving over 4,700,000 gil over the cost of a Verm. Cloak. Even if you BUY all your juice at twice the price (about 500~ in Jeuno, IIRC) you're still going to come up with a price tag of at least three million less than what you would be spending on a V. Cloak.

    Even factoring in the other abilities it gives you (defense, additional MP, etc) its still a horrificially overpriced item. Look at the price of a Black Cloak in compairison.

    Nice calculations.
    ~~~Rune Grey~~~
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    • #3
      what about post 75 doing other stuff?

      outside of partying?

      + couple of deaths here and there for r1s for bad cases.

      and provided you have infinite storage space for 10000000 pineapples and respective amount of water crystals and such. :p

      plus the fact that you can't dig the juice out of your stomach and resell it, while if you buy the cloak, its most likely going to be worth 3x as much when you decide to sell it in favor of a dalmatica or something else when you need cash.

      the cloak is an investment, not a waste of $.

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      • #4
        or you could get V Cloak AND use juice =P

        RenaissanceLS
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        • #5
          You mentioned that the juice wouldnt stack with a rdms refresh but isnt it just yag juice that doesnt stack?

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          • #6
            All MP restoration juices give the 'MP Regen' buff flag in your status bar - which is overwritten by the RDM Refresh buff when it is cast on your character. Therefore, a Red Mage will always supercede any MP refreshing drink, and vise versa.

            Ballad is immune to this thanks to the fact that its a song, filling one of your two song buff slots, and the Vermillion Cloak (as well as Black Cloak and Zenith Body piece, which also give this bonus) simply does it without a buff. Hence, if you're PTing with a RDM, juice or drinks that restore MP are a waste of cash, as your RDM might simply cancel it out with the stronger refresh spell.
            ~~~Rune Grey~~~
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            Genkai 1 - 4 = Complete!
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            • #7
              Dont forget that you can always sell back that verm if you need to XD Honestly I think i'd go insane drinking juice every few minutes of every single PT. Not to mention it'd be a pain in the ass carrying around all that juice for 3+ hr PTs >.>

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              • #8
                Additionally you can use Vermillions Cloak on the following jobs, so its a cross job investment.

                Bard, Black Mage, Monk, Paladin, Red Mage, Summoner, White Mage
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                • #9
                  EWWW Vermy on a BLM is just undeard of, LOL :p

                  Not to mention a wast of money too, we have Black Cloak that does the same thing.



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                  • #10
                    Ive been SMn now for about 2 years and still have yet to even borrow a vermillion cloak, I really like my Af2 and AFshirt and ".dated" Austeres jacket more , I like my pony tail waving in the wind w^^
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                    • #11
                      The best points were already made - juice and RDM refresh won't stack. It's a miracle you got to 55 without proper refresh and dispel (and I don't mean the fenrir bloodpact), but you won't get by without it much longer. Literally every party you'll get will have a support character (unless they suck balls and you're better off leaving them, anyway).

                      Secondly, all you mentioned was EXP PTs. But what about soloing, HNM, endgame activities? HNM you *will* have double refresh or at very least a RDM in your party, making juices totally useless, but quick MP regain all the more important.

                      Thirdly, chucking down a juice every 2 minutes will become annoying and repetitive. Probably forgotten every now and then, anyway. Also, 99% of summoners without a vermy don't use juices at all.

                      Don't get me wrong, I don't think vermy is neccesary to be a good smn or that sort of crap, but it makes your life easier and adds to your effectiveness.
                      BRD75/WHM75/BLM75/RDM75/SMN70/NIN67/MNK33/WAR33/THF15/etc
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Irinicus
                        EWWW Vermy on a BLM is just undeard of, LOL :p

                        Not to mention a wast of money too, we have Black Cloak that does the same thing.
                        rich blms or blms with other mage jobs use it from 59 to 68

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                        • #13
                          I got one, as BLM, but I only used it to rest, never to actually nuke.
                          BRD75/WHM75/BLM75/RDM75/SMN70/NIN67/MNK33/WAR33/THF15/etc
                          Race: Elvaan. I just like to play with race changer. :3
                          Zilart, CoP completed
                          Vrtra downed.

                          San d'Oria Rank 10 & Windurst Rank 10
                          FFXI journal

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                          • #14
                            yea, forgot to mention that. macro shaman cloak or whatever you use for nukes, then swap on the vermy for other times

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                            • #15
                              There's also something to be said about the time it takes to make juice. You can't do it midbattle usually, and you have to choose between making juice or resting. Which would lower the effectiveness of what the juice does.

                              If you don't have the money (I think 6m it is on my server right now) for the VC, don't worry about it. It is a luxury item, even if it is a good one. Not many people would expect you to have it.

                              If you're like some people I know and have 10+ million, but just plain don't want to spend any money... You really don't have much to lose. The price will probably keep going up enough to cover the AH costs if you decide to resell it.
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