The Truth about Summoning Magic skill

[Django]

Now, I've heard two main theories.

1. Summoning magic enhances the stats of an Avatar, thus the higher your summoning magic skill will make the avatar stronger.

2. Summoning magic decreases the interrupt rate of spellcasting and effects how quickly and what kind of magic Spirits cast.

There's so many extra factors that it's very hard to know for sure. I did BCNM20 Shooting Fish with a tarutaru summoner once (I'm a hume)... We both summoned Ramuh, and our summoning magic skill was obviously capped for 20. We both told our avatars to assault the Sniper Pugil. His Ramuh died instantly, whereas my Ramuh was able to hold off the pugils long enough for me to escape (the other guy was next on the pugils' list) with a little bit less than half HP left.

Others have said with max summoning skill their avatars are pretty much better all around. However, these people are about level 70+ anyway, so I don't think it would matter. I think the second theory is the correct one because that's why it's so stressed to have maximum summoning skill for the level 20 fights...because when Shiva's wailing on you, you gotta get the 'buncle out. In my own personal experience, I don't think that summoning skill affects an avatar's power because during my level20 fights with Ifrit and Leviathan, Searing Light was resisted twice by them on their weak days. It looked like this:

Carbuncle uses Searing Light.
Ifrit takes 210 points of damage.

Carbuncle uses Searing Light.
Ifrit takes 105 points of damage.

Carbuncle uses Searing Light.
Ifrit takes 105 points of damage.

Ifrit defeats Kajidoh. (I got him on the second time around, though)

Carbuncle uses Searing Light.
Leviathan takes 105 points of damage.

Carbuncle uses Searing Light.
Leviathan takes 51 points of damage.

Leviathan defeats Kajidoh (and I got him the second time around, too.)

So, that's how I see it. However, there's a rumor that SE has released an official statement about summoning magic skill, and if anyone has the link I would like to see it, so we can put an end to all the myths and to all the rumors.

[SharMarali]

What most high levels SMN friends have told me is that it increases the accuracy of blood pacts. I also believe that it most likely DOES decrease spell interruption rate, simply because maxing out your OTHER magic skills decreases spell interruption rate. For the sake of consistency, it seems to me that SMN skill would do the same.

Increasing the accuracy of blood pacts is nice and all, but when you play a buffing SMN like I do, it's not worth the giant bore of standing in Batallia for hours and hours on end summoning to get like 2 points of skill.

[Kiyone]

You are not factoring in resistance with those numbers for Astral Flow...

Every Astral Flow technique, by definition, is considered as magic. As such, it follows the guidelines of attack magic, namely strength and resistance. Strength, for sure is a basis of level. Summoning skill may or may not have a factor in it, this I am unsure. Resistance is the chance of your attacking being full strength. That has a lot more variables to determine, ranging from elements to your equipment to the day of the week to even the weather.

In my opinion, being resisted during Astral Flow is inconclusive evidence that summoning magic does nothing for avatar stats.


With regards to the experiment in the level 20 BCNM, one run makes it fairly difficult to draw conclusions from... It could have been chance that the taru's Ramuh just didn't evade as much as yours, but evasion is a basis of chance. Even at the same level evasion, the results will vary wildly from one set of numbers to another.


For the record, higher summoning skill really does decrease the interrupt rate, and it decreases the time it takes between spells for spirit pacts. With capped skill and items, without merit points, 269+32 is the highest it goes, I believe. At that skill level, at 75, it takes about 200 MP for the first cast, and every concurrent 200 MP after that. With relic pants, that number is halved, and your pact will cast roughly every 100 MP. When you are in an alliance, for light pact, it will cast double time. So if it takes 100 MP per cast, it will cast once on your party at 100 MP, and once on your alliance 50 MP after, and then once on your party, and so on, alternating every 50 or so MP.

What kind of spells the spirit pacts casts is a basis on the level of the summoner. The spells it can cast are related to white mage and black mage spell levels, i.e. your ice pact won't cast freeze unless you, the smn, are level 50, the same level blm learn freeze. Another example, my light pact, at level 67 SMN, will cast Protect IV, but only Shell III, since Shell IV is learned at 68. Also, it won't chance to cast any lower version of a sequence spell, like Protect III or Shell II.


With regards to the accuracy of statement #1, like you said, it's hard to know for sure, because there are an alarming amout of extra factors. In the end, though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Countless people have leveled summoner with far from capped skill and aren't thought less of or shunned for it. If you took the time to cap it, congrats. If you didn't, smile every time you get random skill ups :3

~nya

[Shadosaber]

when I was lvling up. I got the the lvl where I could use Megalith Throw. I used it and it hit. but later it wouldn't hit. my skill was lower, like capped for lvl 20ish. many other blood pacts missed also. even playing a buffing smn, sometimes those blood pacts can do nice debuffs that help. like fenrir has Lunar Cry.

At this time I am lvl 75 though I have delevels to 74 due to Promathia mission deaths. my skill isn't capped yet and on the big nm, my lunar cry doesn't always hit. lunar cry is a very powerful debuff. because it effects the monster rather then the party. so people in the alliance also get the effect of it's use.

I personally think the smn skill effects everything about the avatars. it is how much damage you can do with Astral Flow. The accuacy of your blood pacts. your interupt rate when getting attacked while casting the avatar. it most definetly effects the strength of your magic type blood pacts. like a blm casting fire IV, it is the avatars version of elemental magic skill.

While typing this I hit 229 out of 269 cap for lvl 75. the biggest factor in increasing the strength of the avatars is the elenemtal staffs. espcially the HQ ones. I only have pluto's right now. but I hope to get them all eventually. you want to equip the staffs before you start casting too.

Firesped

[Sheila]

Staves do not affect Avatar strength.

[Teffie]

I'm not totally sure on the exact use of the Summoning Magic Skill for your Avatar, but I am almost positive that it improves either your avatar's attack or accuracy or all around stats.

The way I am sure of this, is because I have been doing various 6 SMN PT's in Sky. 6 SMN's ranging from 65-67, all with different skill levels.

Average Damage:

SMN with 246 Skill (capped): 500+
SMN with 200 Skill: High 400's, sometimes Less than 150
SMN with 177 Skill: Low 400's, often Less than 100

When I first started the SMN PT's in Sky, I had 177 Skill and was terribly underleveled. I was doing 2 digit damage so many times, and the only reason I could point it to is my Summoning Magic Skill Level (which was so low). A week later once I got the SMN PT going again, I had fully leveled my skill to its cap, and I noticed how I was doing probably the most damage in the group at all times.

Just my $0.02

[Tirrock]

I personally think it doesn't effect avatar damage/accuracy by a large (or noticable) amount. I've gone from 80 below cap on summoning magic skill to 20 below without noticing a bit of difference. The only thing that really seemed to matter was the level of the summoner themselves. (Hell, I swear I miss spinning dive/mountain buster more than I ever did before as a level 70-73.)

I'm willing to accept that it might effect damage (even more so than I thought). It's just really hard to prove... The random nature of blood pacts makes it really difficult.

[Liefe]

Honestly I'm not sure if it affects anything other than the cast time and interruption rate.
I'm capped for 75 with 4 levels of skill and compared to someone with 100+ undercapped we do pretty similar damage.

It may or may not affect accuracy of physical moves, but definitely not the magic ones. I've done 125-200 tp 4 bursts on aura statues and consistantly get resisted. I'm talking 200 tp 175 damage bursts..heh

The question of if the skill should affect the moves is rhetorical though, it should. It should affect the resist rate of the en/spike spells, the max damage they can do, the accuracy and damage of the magic, attack (not damage) power and accuracy of the ws, imo. Why make a skill so hard to raise if it has no point?

[Username2]

I'm not a smn, im just reading cause i'm bored.

I have something I can add.
When you get to merit points.
SMN has a few selections.
Avatar acc
Avatar magic acc
i think evasion/resistance
and so on. sorry I dont know them 100%
My point is that you can also increase smn skill.
This is why i think smn skill doesnt help with acc and magic acc.

I could be totaly wrong tho.

[spunkymage]

I can back up what Teffie was saying. I've had a static smn party since level 65 and both in sky and tomb those with higher smn skill consistently do more damage during blood pacts than those with lower skills.

In my opinion, it's not worth wasting hours on end trying to level. I've burned thousands upon thousands of mp trying to get like a 0.2 skill-up. It is, however, something you don't want to let fall too far behind. No smn obviously wants to be embarassed from blood pacts that miss. Just don't let leveling smn skill deter you from game play. If you participate in exp parties as a dmg dealer often, your skill ups will come naturally. My smn skill has been about 30 under level for quite a while now, and I usually get mad smn skill-ups during optical hat runs, god fights, and now in my smn static parties.

[Sheila]

Originally posted by Username2

My point is that you can also increase smn skill.
This is why i think smn skill doesnt help with acc and magic acc.

I could be totaly wrong tho.

If you used that reasoning then weapon skills and magic skills wouldn't affect magic/physical acc and attack.

Just so you know, those skills do affect it and visibly so.

[LadyPeorth]

I'm no where near my Summoning Magic skill cap (bout 50 levels under-leveled) but frankly...sitting outside of Jeuno and constantly casting the spells seems to have little/no effect on the skill itself. Mean while...casting in Garlige last night, I noticed the skill jumping by 0.4 and 0.5 nearly constantly. Location might have a possible effect on how fast the skill rises.

[Sheana]

It seems to me that it works somewhat like healing and enhancing. When you spam them by yourself, you get very few raises, but when u cast them with/on a party, it seems to raise faster. I got to play w/ Ramuh last night in Qufim (just beat him yesterday ), and Summoning was going up .2 to .3 every cast. I'm about 20 pts below cap at lvl 20

[Liefe]

I've capped it for 75 and I honestly don't think there is anything other than luck involved. My last .1 took 6 hours of marathon summoning to get and frankly I can't see at least a -noticeable- difference in comparison to summoners with 75, 90, 100 point under cap skill. It definitely does not affect magic resist rates (I CONSTANTLY get resisted on avatar MBs in parties, even with reasonable 150+ amounts of TP). Should this be looked at? Probably. Will SE do anything about one of the most pain in the ass job skills to raise in terms of making it useful? Who knows...