Why are people so mad at the level 20 Avatar Quests?

[Shiia]

Its called dedication. Some people have real life yet they achive things which requires dedication. I have a job 10hour dayly, I live in Europe which means static party = impossible to achieve at the current state. Yet I managed to come here. I still don't have dragoon job. I still don't have 4 (including fenrir) out of 7 summons.

Look FFXI is not the only game. Take EQ for example. How many people can go progress deep in Plane of Power expantion? Elemental planes, Plane of Time etc? Not many. But with effort and dedication you can. In FFXI you don't REALLY HAVE that kind of progression system. Sure you have missions but you can quickly pick up random people for that.

In all MMORPG the more time you put, the more benefits you get. Its a question of how much effort and dedication you put. Its a game yes... but its a game where you need effort and time investment.

[TenshuRune]

/sigh. Okay, now you're just assuming I have no idea what an MMORPG is. Yes, I know things take dedication and alot of time to do. That isn't the point here.

My point is that some people are more fortunate than others because they know a few people. They can basically be handed the avatars with little work.

Fenrir is great, I realize this. Having him can make the battle basically go infavor of that PT. I understand that.

I have my views on things, I guess. All I'm doing is explaining how I see things. But if people want to stay with the idea that if you're a SMN, you have to have Fenrir.. fine, whatever.

[CoalChamber]

Fenrir WAS hard. Keyword: was. Until a little while later strategies came out and people started finding more things out. So having Fenrir does not make you "uber." I've met someone who was only a lvl 40 SMN when she got Fenrir. Because her friends were very, very, very high. 75 NIN, 75 BLM, 74WHM, 72SMN, 70 BRD. She tagged along and got Fenrir. So you CAN leech Fenrir, just as you can leech all the other summons. Having Fenrir does make a difference, but it doesn't really "show" any type of dedication if you have higher lvl friends.

[Mantronic]

My sub is for ME and nobody else

when you realize that ff xi is a we game you can talk to use good luck getting lvl 50 limit break items with that attitude. i dont sneak any other mage when we go into eldimie because i shouldnt have too so when you learn this game is not about me me me me me me then you might relaize sub is not to make you happy its to make the 5 other people you party with have an easier time with exp plain and simple.


i have partied with smn/blm's and blm/smn and honestly both are pretty worthless in a leveling party and for pretty much everything else.

i retired my smn cause i can not get fenrir yet if and when i lvl smn pass 20 will be because i have all the summons. for now i am happy with rdm whm and bst

[tomfin10]

Another thing. Blm sub for summoner. For me its the best cause as SMN i need the most MP, and BLM will boost my MP which is great. I do not intend to use black magic, since I will use Avatars all the time - thats my main job after all. I need highest MP and BLM sub will help me on this.

No, you want the most MP REGEN later on, not the most MP.

I experienced once a situation when person with subbed WHM was asked to use Cure spells all the time. If anyone would ask me such question I would feel INSULTED.

Just say you refuse to ONLY Cure and that you'll leave if you're asked to ONLY Cure.

My sub is for ME and nobody else.

Ah, so you plan on soloing to 75? Mmmk.

It enhances my MAIN job - job that I always wanted to do.

Yeah the BLM sub does enhance your main job, but very little. BLM gives you Warp at 34 (Self), Escape at 62 (PT Saver, but you should have a BLM or WHM with sub BLM in PT), and Elemental Seal at 30 (DMG to mob, but useless because why would you bother casting a spell that does half the DMG for the same MP cost?)... now some of that stuff seems nice and all, but those are really the only spells/abilities that will help the PT out. Your enfeebles will begin to resist at higher LVs, as well as your elemental DMG.

WHM gets Cures/Curagas, Divine Seal...etc... I'd rather have someone in my PT that has a sub with lots of options to back up the PT than a sub that has 2 or 3 spells that are useful on only certain situations.

EDIT: Grammer and revising...

[Shiia]

I am not saying you will need fenrir if you want to be a summoner. I am saying if you have a 60+ character you will have a higher chance of joining a fenrir tour.

[RookeGoldenleaf]

Originally posted by Teffie


PS2 players come along, not too long in their arrival they get this Mini-Avatar Patch, so they can play a SMN if they wanted to really early on like I did.

How is that fair? I spend countless hours leveling a job to play a SMN, while PS2'ers just trot along with their level 20 Carbie Only SMN's and get them all.

Please stop this. No finger pointin, no 'that other group of people ruin it " type stuff. It seems like petty.

Me doubt, anyone really knows trues reason why SE changed this. In online games, things changes. Players gets new things and new changes. As players, we can adapt and move on or stop and complain.

For me, me haves seen enough complainin, name callin between cultures, and petty childish sabotage acts. If anyone haves problem with this change, take it to SE. They change it, and only they can unchange it. Do nots attack other players on message boards or ingame over some 'perceived' wrong.

[RookeGoldenleaf]

Here is my 5 gil to all this subject ^^

Everybody talks as if they were experts on everything - so have anybody experience such battle YET??

[/B]

Yes and them nots easy. Should nots be easy either.

Another thing. Blm sub for summoner. For me its the best cause as SMN i need the most MP, and BLM will boost my MP which is great. I do not intend to use black magic, since I will use Avatars all the time - thats my main job after all. I need highest MP and BLM sub will help me on this.

For me, around lvl 40 whm, me wanted mp back faster. Havin lots of mp is really nice for long battles but can make for some long downtime too.

I experienced once a situation when person with subbed WHM was asked to use Cure spells all the time. If anyone would ask me such question I would feel INSULTED. My sub is for ME and nobody else. It enhances my MAIN job - job that I always wanted to do.

Why would you feel insulted ? You are part of group, several people workin together to accomplish similar goal. Goal is to drop monsters as fast and efficent as possible. /whm subs can really reduce downtime, makin exp faster.

As others have say, /blm adds little to parys. Spells will be partial resisted even ats low levels. Ats higher levels would nots count on them workin ats all. It do add Escape and Warp. *shrug* Almost always haves Blm/x in group now anway.

/whm adds cures and me not see those resisted ats low or higher levels. You gets Divine Seal and can reduce party downtime. Win - Win

However, you can play how you want to. You are payin monthly fee, and any work you haves do is on character you created.

[LockeCole]

I think it's a great idea~! Firstly the fame requirement (i assume it's the same) will assure only dedicated players will get it. Have you tried getting fame in Windy if you really are a level 30 guy ? It's painful and very time consuming ; ;. Also you only get the avatar, no option for gil or items, thus the higher level ones still have a purpose if not just for the avatar. It seems pretty challenging as well, from some other threads i've read. You gotta know some basics about aggro, know how astral flow works pace your mp (aka don't spam blood pacts) etc. This will definately work to help the summoner job. When fenrir came out the number of summoners shot up (well at high level parties, mainly japanese summoners), maybe this will further increase the summoner population

Personally I hope they will make one for fenrir maybe a level 60 BC, and will require the whispers from the normal lvl 60+ avatar fights or something, thus if you fail it's still a pain to fight him again. Fenrir's Acc + and Evasion - can be very helpful in a time when accuracy is key, especially upper levels.

PS. to whoever said blm is the best sub for summoner because of MP... - NO. Get mp equips or elemental staffs and sub white mage. All high level summoners help cure when they're not using avatars, it's the same with a bard (unless you use a weapon.. hmmm) this lessons the burden on the main healer, saves his mp thus reduces downtime. If you want to solo go ahead sub anything that you think enhances your job, but if you're in a party you're just frustrating 5 other people.

[catwoman]

Just my personal experience

Ok so i read the first few pages of this thread and gave up after seeing the same points being made over and over again.

I am a level 61 whm and obtained 3 avatars in a full party the old fashioned way. All in all it was pretty easy, and not to mention cheap.

When I tried the solo battles as level 20 smn i wasted 40k before I actually won a single battle. IMHO these battles are far trickier than the original battles especially as a taru, unless you have a high level smn already in order to cast high level protects and so forth, as well as stoneskin.

The reason I went to get my last 3 avatars (not including Fenrir) was purely due to the lack of people willing to take the time out from levelling to go fight avatars.

Just because people go do them at low level doesn't always mean they have a low level job. Just something to think about....

[Malamasala]

I'm getting a little confused on some of the points on why you should have fenrir.

You need attack and acc up for party to be useful?

Invite a bard?

Seriously it sounds like fenrir add close to nothing, while every old-school summoner claim it's godly.

[Xanerkin]

OK I made it to level 30 and the first thing I did...after I waited around for the rest of the party to reach at least 30...was to go get my ruby for this quest. I got all of my elements in one day...ICE was not easy as I'm sure you all know at level 30. Anyway beside the point...I'm on this board for one reason and that is to get advice from all of you...if you see a low level SMN offer your knowledge so they don't make stupid mistakes like the ones you fear we are going to make. I don't think I am a noob, but in comparison to higher level players...call me what you will, I don't care. I had only unlocked the job at first for the fun of it; I plan on leveling my BLM until I have all of my AF gear anyway. Playing as a Summoner doesn't sound like such an easy thing to do, and after reading the posts on this board I think it will be a challenging and enjoyable experience. I don't plan on taking the job lightly and I’ll be looking on here for advice. Don't be scared of those of us that are just now taking our first steps on the journey you have already undertaken...we are just following in your footsteps. Some of us will become great Summoners while others will wander off the path. I've seen some pretty horrible job combos myself and I point it out to the party members I see and I explain why they are bad combos...do the same before they waste all of their time leveling them, lol!

I only read the first 4 pages of this thread...I have to get some sleep before work...so I can afford my FFXI habbit! I'd say I'll see you in the game, but haven't seen too many people on here from my server...oh well

[Atma]

And, in fairness, the "No XP Loss" thing people are raving about isn't EXACTLY true. Yes, there's no XP loss for dying in the protocrystal, however there basically *is* xp loss when you have to get out of the protocrystal, unless you're willing to blow 750cp on an Instant Warp scroll or lucky enough to get a warp 2.

No XP loss in crystal basically means you don't lose XP two times if you lose.

[Evol]

Atma.....huh?

You don't lose any xp when you die in a level 20 Protocrystal battle. When you die and release to home point, you go to the last place you HP'd...

When you win it gives you a free scroll of instant warp. So there is no possible way to lose xp doing this.

And the reason Fenrir is "godly" is because of the acc/eva up and the acc/eva down spells...plus his ecliptic bite does incredible ammounts compared to the other avatars. Basically Fenrir turns you from a support class to an attacking class.

[Pulma]

After reading all 7 pages of this I find it funny what some of you have said. First of all I would have to say after watching SMN's in battle for 64 levels, that IMO to keep the exp flowing nicely it's just better to let the avatar use his bloodpact, then for the SMN heal. I would never ask a SMN to be the main person to heal, but seriously some of you are complaining because you have to heal in a PT. So I have a question for you. Would you rather make it harder on the group and not heal? Seriously remember YOU ARE IN A GROUP. Do whats best for the group and not for yourself. Some of you do sound selfish when it comes to groups and your role as a SMN.

But back on topic.....

Me personally I dont have a problem with anyone that plays the job right. So if that means that they can get all the avatars at level 20, go for it. And I could care less if there are more SMN's out there. SMN is a nice class to have in your PT. I just think that they should have handled it a little differently.