Why are people so mad at the level 20 Avatar Quests?

[ruffrydasean]

Hi Rigsta, I thought I saw your name in that stupid ass thread, you should'nt have contributed your valuable knowledge. More power to ya....

[ZQM]

Stupid question:

Are you only aloud to use Carby in the new lv20 avatar battles, or can you use the other avatars (if you have them)?

[Khaelyn]

"Oh, all those Carbuncle-only Summoners are soooo useless."

"There's another Summoner leech asking some high levels to help them get Shiva."

"What? The new update lets lower-level Summoners get the summons? That's not fair!"

Are you listening to yourself?

They still have to get at least 30 levels of play (30 to get Summoner, and Summoner has to be your main class to get the quest). They... we... since I plan to do this as soon as I think I am able (must... have... blue... nekkid chick...)

We still have to win the battle. Make of that what you will (so I bought my summon? Just like I bought every other win, I suppose... whatever).

And to make Fenrir be a good doggy, you still have to go and fight all the Primes all over again to get the quest items.

It's not like the summons will come out with a mark to let the party know how they were acquired (a scarlet 'L' for leeched, a crimson 'B' for battled at 60, and a pink 'T' for the twinked mini fight?).

And as someone pointed out on another board, how do you know this wasn't always what Square intended to do? The NPC who gives the quest isn't new - at least for the Trial Size Trial By Ice. That guy has always been there.

Anyway, years from now, I'll be the one whining about how I had to walk uphill both ways through the driving snow to get to school. Where there were no books! We had to learn to read from chicken scratches on the wall!

[Sanada]

Originally posted by Rigsta


Do tell me how a level 5 player might earn 20,000 Gil easily in a day. Besides getting lucky on crystals? (15-20 stacks at least).

Who the hell are you to say what people lower level than yourself deserve? I'm nearly level 60 myself and I applaud this change. Because SMN required unecessarily high-level jobs to get the avatars, it was far too exclusive. SMN as it stood was a members-only club of self-styled elites who apparantly (from these boards at least) think they're qualified to dictate what every aspiring SMN should have to do to get their avatars. Face it, the original system was flawed. It was introduced in Japan when the server population was predominantely high-level. I guess the original system seemed like a good idea at the time, and it is - IF you have a job that level already.

Does it really make sense to have to level an unrelated, and possibly unwanted job into the AF stages to make the job you actually want to play viable?

SMN should be just like any other advanved job. I'm sorry if your baby isn't quite as exclusive as it was before, but I'm sure you'll all get over it. Avatars should not be 1337ness trophies or "good adventurer" badges, or any other form of measuring stick. They are a job aspect. I'll copy and paste what I wrote on another forum:

Imagine another job being so restricted until you have another job at level 60. RNG not allowed to use a bow unless you do a lvl60 quest. DRK and PLD with no magic. Scratch that, DRK and PLD with magic but no access to their high offensive/defensive skills, respectively. Dragoon with no Wyvern and only regular polearm use. Bard with only first/second-tier songs. You're telling us it's fair for SMN to be a job with exclusively higher requirements than all the other advanced jobs?



It's not the end of the world, you just feel cheated that you couldn't try this new way. Which before you say anything, isn't easy. Please also refer to this thread:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...96559710&num=4

I agree 100%

Its plain and simple all the high lvl SMNs are scared that now they wont be seen as some uber special person.

[ruffrydasean]

/sigh

aw man...no one ever quotes me..i never bring up any good points

:dead:

[Oompa]

I'm thrilled with the new quests. I earned my avatars the old fashion way, but I felt that something needed to be done to revitalize the ailing job class. I applaud those members who can earn their avatars at level 20. Bravo! It's not an easy battle in the least, but it gives a much needed "popularity" boost to our loved job. Every other job on the market has the ability to do great things right off the bat, why can't the SMN be amoung those jobs? Who said a DRK had to wait until a job was leveled to 60 to become a good DRK? No one. I however love my level 61 BLM, it's great fun, and gives me a sense of accomplishment in the game. I'm not upset or feel I was cheated in any way because I leveled BLM to 61. I feel good to say I have a high level job and have a great deal of admiration from those I party with when they see I'm only level 34 but rank 6. People KNOW I'm a veteran. What I do have a problem with is those who until recently only had a job leveled to the mid 30-40's and stood on the coat tails of their higher leveled friends needlessly risking thier lives and XP for their greedy needs. Either fight the Avatars yourself at level 20 or level to 50+ and fight them with a party and CONTRIBUTE to the battles.

This update just ROCKS for SMNs. It gave us back the ability to be useful in a party well before our love for the game expires. What I hate is what they did to DRGs and DRKs. Just sick.

[Ariagiovanni]

DRK's aren't good til 60

Well, even less now because they nerfed their holy grail

[insanepierrot]

I am a level 66 Summoner, and I have realized there is a large increase of horrible Summoners out there. Ex Lv 55 SMN with 114 Summoning skill. But thats not why I am here posting. I am here to say I haven't lost my eliteness. "Why?" Someone might ask, Its beacause us higher level summoners have someother more respectful things to get for our summoners. For example, noob summoners still can't get Fenrir yet (XD and don't forget it), Royal Cloak, Envoker's Ring(Still need to get), and also spending the countless hours leveling our summoning skill just to stay on top. There is no need to worry about lower level summoners flooding the job field because only the truely well known, powerful, and more experienced summoners will rise to the top.

F.Y.I. My SMN Skill is Maxed XP

[DarthWufei]

-_- Some of you guys make me gag when I think about levelling up my SMN as my second high level character.

If some of you guys are going to put the icky elitest label on the job. By all means I am leaving that class alone.

But anywho, yay for the new quests~ SMNs deserve it. Anyone who says either already has their summons and is mad. And again, THE BATTLES ARE NOT EASY. How hard is it for people to get that through their head? Many people have repeated that in this topic, yet the SMNs against it never seem to respond. Hell, they don't even know it's hard as they can't try it. They think it's a damned cake walk. I'm about to go see the results of my friend who's been levelling her SMN job up to 20 to try out the new quests and see how it goes. She has actually gained Ifrit and Ramuh by the normal means, so I'm interested into see how it goes.

Hell, I bet most summoner's don't even cherish they're summons. >_> How many of you let carbie go pull in harm's way? HOW MANY? Poor little carbie, your first summon ever too. That's just sick. SICK! >_<! (Sorry, I wanted to end on a lighthearted note.)

[Macht]

Originally posted by ruffrydasean
/sigh

aw man...no one ever quotes me..i never bring up any good points

:dead:

Guess you don't ruffrydasean, sorry to hear

[Rodin]

When I was leveling in qufim (before I deleted my Pld/war adn went whm) I partied with a JP SMN who had all of the avatars. Do you know what he did during that battle? He was a gimp whm, he almost never summoned his avatars, he just sat there and helped our whm cure. The exp that we got was great, I think I got three levels in about two hours because we had a brd and a monk, also a dark. The summons are almost rarely used in parties I've been in, but honestly with the new patch you dont have to sit with a blue fox or whatever for sixty levels, you can unlock the potential of the job much sooner. Way to go SE ^^b

[ruffrydasean]

Originally posted by Macht


Guess you don't ruffrydasean, sorry to hear

W00T someone said my full name instead of Ruff, ruffy, ruffry....Although I'll accept Sean ~.^

i thought this was quotable/aggreable

If you want to be prestigeous(spelling), DONT use SMN, go get rank 10. go get your Relic EQ. go fight HNMs and get their uber drops, just don't use SMN please..your clouding up my "good air"

[Rigsta]

Originally posted by ruffrydasean
/sigh

aw man...no one ever quotes me..i never bring up any good points

:dead:

j00 r n0t 1337 enuf. ph33r my posta powa!

Um, yeah. I didn't expect such a response :sweat: I'm done making new posts on this isue, I'll just copy and paste if I feel the need to dispel the non-truths again.

There are some who insist that the lvl20 battle is easier. IMO it's easier to attain but still a respectible solo accomplishment. A certain allakhazam poster is quite insistent on belitteling anyone who acquires the avatars via the lvl20 fights, which is just childish. I did like the way he described it as a cakewalk, then when asked what buffs he got pre-fight, he listed prot IV, shell III, bar spell, blink and stoneskin. Way to "solo" the lvl20 fights

[Xien]

This is my personal opinion.

I'm actually kind of scared what this will bring. There's no doubt from what I read that the lvl 20 avatar fights are difficult. Anyone able to complete them should be given a pat on the back.

However, the fight is done solo. It does nothing to teach them how to play summoner in a party. One thing I liked about the lvl requirement for the avatars before was that it forced (most of them) to go through the 40-60's. People learn in these lvls what works and doesn't work. Take a look at the LFG list at 50-60 and compare to the 30-40's. Probably a lot more cookie-cutter combinations at higher lvls.

I'm just afraid we'll be seeing a lot more odd combinations. Smn/blm. Smn/war. Smn/Thf. And if my LS mates have partied with a Drk/RDM why not Drk/SMN? Don't get me wrong, newbies != bad player. But seeing how many RDM/NINs and RDM/THFs there are on my server makes me shudder what to expect.

I guess before, when I invited a summoner into a PT (40+) who had all the avatars, I knew he/she would have a certain standard. Most of them knew their role in a PT and most of the time, knew when and what pacts to use. These are the ones spending hours upon hours in rolanberry fields summoning and unsummoning. These are the ones that make XP flow faster and make you respect the summoner class.

I guess I'm just an ass or a pessimist. But I'm sure most of you have partied with SAMs who insist on soloing renkeis and DRKs who stack last resort, soul eater, and berserk. Remember the PLD that had his JAs all stacked in one macro? What about the RDM/DRK that just ENed himself and wacked away?

On one hand I'm very glad that the avatars will be easier to get. The SMN class is way too exclusive and it's been a VERY long time since I've PTed with one. They're a really cool class :D

But on the flip-side, I'd be more hesitant to invite a SMN now. Call me what you want, elitist, asshole, whatever. But if you don't /whm or minimum /RDM as a SMN, I'm not inviting you. Ever.

Xien

[Oceanfish]

My opinion is jaded becuase I took a class to 60+ and got summoner to 70. I did everything the hard way and if you think levelling a job to 20 (doable in a day) and buying a couple yagudo drinks (you can avoid getting aggro using them, fyi) to get avatars with 0 risk of experience loss or having to travel to the cloisters is justified, then that's fine. And if you read my previous posts you would know that I was not upset just that level 20s had a shot, but that they didn't have to go to the cloister and couldn't lose exp on death in the BC.

The new avatar quests do gimp the experience. Summoner is not a staple class for parties, ever. It's a class that is "nice but not necessary" in most cases. People should level a stape job to ~60 first before doing summoner (thief,red mage, white mage, warrior,etc) because of that.


I was never in "fear" of losing my "1337"ness, and never held myself in that position of being "1337" just because I had a few avatars( except for defeating Fenrir on the first try with no deaths). I just don't want to see the job I treasure turn into Dragoonjob#2, SMNs with no game experience and horrid job combos with that "u can't tell me how to play my job" attitude, etc. I suppose that can't be helped though, unfortunately.

I think the avatar quests aren't completely bad, but I would have rather them make spirits more viable for parties and/or add a low level avatar.