Why are people so mad at the level 20 Avatar Quests?

[CoalChamber]

My god stop bitching! This doesn't affect you, if anything it benefits you since all the uper lvl people just bitch and bitch about leechers. Well now lower lvl people can get a chance WHICH THEY DESERVE! If you can get an avatar from a 1 on 1 fight with only carbuncle, hell you deserve it MORE. And SMN is a fun job, and it shouldn't only be limited to the "OMG I'm so L33T" upper lvl people. Because if you haven't noticed, the lower scale of the game is bleak. This is all a way to make it funner for lower lvl people. It's a game. The only reason people are pissed off about this is because they're no longer "special" and it will make a bit more SMNs, which is good since in all on my server there are about 30 only 10 or so of which are above lvl 10 with all avatars (Fenrir included in some.)

I think this upgrade was awesome...well except for their "fixing" of the DRG job in which they totally fucked it over. So just accept the fact that you aren't special and 1 of a kind, then everything will be grand. Teach the new SMN, work together, don't look at them in disgust and think "DIRTY WHORE! YOU HAD IT SOOO EASIER THEN ME!" Because going against a avatar all alone at such a low lvl with only carbuncle by your side and flat broke because you spent all your gil on potions and elixers is NOT easy.

[Navia]

I'm over it already, this has nothing to do with feeling 'special' - its the fear that the SMN job will see large increase of bad players taking up the job.
SMN will join the ranks of DRG + DRK as the most overplayed job, maybe thats a good thing if alot of those SMN can accept a heal or enfeebling role because there are way too many melee jobs seeking pt and never enough mages.

What we don't need is masses of poorly equipped summoners with underleveled or bad sub choice (blm or melee job), trying to level up with less than the 6 primes at a minimum.
Its like ninjas trying to level without utsusemi, or rangers with bad bows and crappy arrows - dont do it, for the sake of your own reputation and your fellow SMN trying to get pt's without fenrir. If you are serious about being a SMN, by 51 you should have light/elemental staves so start saving now.

[Rigsta]

Originally posted by Navia
I'm over it already, this has nothing to do with feeling 'special' - its the fear that the SMN job will see large increase of bad players taking up the job.

Conversely, there will also be a large increase of good players taking up the job who were previously unable to.

Don't worry summoners, the apocolypse is not approaching. Both methods of getting the avatars are respectible acheivements, but personally I couldn't give a monkey's how someone got their job/abilities as long as they're a decent person and a good player.

[Darkmana]

i totaly agree with you CoalChamber. the ONLY reason anyone is bitching about this is the fact that the avatars were a sign of high level players. you had to have insane requirements to even get the chance to fight them. people say oh no that is'nt the reason, but yes it is. you dont feel special anymore cuz the new players get the chance to fight the avatars eaiser than you had it. deal with it. square are doing what they think is good for the game and i'm with them 100% on this. the smn is the most underated, under used job in the game. (at least on my server, gilgamesh, i've only ever seen like 5 people over lvl 30 in smn in the past 2 months) whats wrong with them wanting to bring some life into the job? people say stuff about n00bs becoming smns but think about what your saying...

"What we don't need is masses of poorly equipped summoners with underleveled or bad sub choice (blm or melee job), trying to level up with less than the 6 primes at a minimum"

do you honestly think that ANYONE with outdated equipment could do these battles? the potions and drinks alone cost an insane amount of money. any "bad" player could never afford the cost of this and thus, never get an avatar. so i dont know what your bitching about. your answering your own question, NO bad smn'er could ever get an avatar the new way. not every player can have up-to-the-minute-equipment like some. we dont have $100000's of gil like some people but we do the best we can with what we have. gil is hard to get until level 30 - 35 before you can really farm well and large amounts. dont dis people because they may not equipment that is worth thousands. remember you were a low level once before and had the exact same problem.

[Oceanfish]

I spent a whole 5k total for completing 2 avatar quests I did do.
3k to buy "gear" and 2k to buy 2 yagudo drinks.

Please. A level 5 could make 20k gils per day, easily, let alone a level 30ish (probably WHM) who can probably use sneak/invis to finish other quests,etc.

While I will admit I did have Carbuncle Mitts (but didn't wear Astrals, oops, forgot to bring them) for the battles, the only difference there would be a couple more yagudo drinks at that level.

I'm not "in fear about losing my special feeling" or whatever, they just don't deserve it at their levels in its current form. If they had to travel to the cloister and could lose exp on the fights I'd say it'd be ok. It's a slap in the face to the people who did work for the summoner class until now (no, producing 20-50k gil at level 30ish is not a challenge, it's cake, and I highly doubt it would cost even the poorest skill player that much).

Nobody has to agree with my opinions, but don't try and take a sucker punch at me or other posters by attacking their ego.

[Ariagiovanni]

I agree with Oceanfish.

I spend months getting to level 61+.. i spend a long time trying to get to the cloisters, which was HELL, I had to even get the paintbrush for leviathan. And now.... you can teleport there as a level 20 smn and solo it.

It is a slap in the face to anyone who is like me. The only ones who complain are the ones who can't deal with getting to a high level. I worked hard to only be shorthanded. Well... I hope all the poeple that bitched to SE about smn's are happy now. All servers will be 1,000 summoners (gimped class) to every 1 tank. Congratulations (using autotranslator of course).

[Shiia]

You won't regret your lvling. Sooner or later you will have to do the old way for Fenrir. And yes... Fenrir is not an easy fight. Cannot be leeched. Even a lvl 68 gets told to get lost when you ask to join a Fenrir tour. Fenrir tour is 70+. Wondering how many people would stay as a summoner for 70 lvls, if they cannot even lvl a character to 60. Smn and Whm are not that different in roles... just some extra move for summoner.

Remember, Summoner is a support job. Their offensive use won't come into play till 70s. (65 if you have fenrir)

[Malamasala]

Why is it ALWAYS the same?

"If you haven't leveled up to 60 with a job, how do you think you can play summoner?"

I mean, that roughly translates to "If you play 60 levels of dragoon, you will know exactly how to play summoner"



And I don't think there will be that many more summoners than it would with the old method, they'll just appear sooner.

[Dux]

I can totally understand why the existing high level players are upset. It is truely unfair that for years people have been forced to spend (?waste?) hundreds of hours and dollars/yen just to actually get to the Avatars in the first place only to find that SE completely remove any value they acquired in doing so in one swift blow.

My personal concern is that all the Spehiroth Doods will be thinking "ya SNM iz c00l. I is do SMNR!!!11" and the reputation that the established players have worked so hard to build out of what was orginally a very difficult job (original implementation of SMN) is ruined.

I myself intend on completing the SMNs in the traditional route because of the extra experience of what it is to be a good SMN I will gain. I fear the people we are trying to prevent from ruining the reputation (and hence team finding ability) of a SMN have no such interested in being a good summoner, only that they have the cool summons.

I will say now that not all of the new SMNs will be bad players. However I strongly feel you are deceiving yourself if you think the ratio of good SMN to bad SMN is going to be a positive one. There will be a slow improvement over time as the players who are only doing it because they think its cool go back to their other jobs when they realise it isn't as exciting as they hoped.

I can forsee a potentially long length of time where nobody (read long time players with significant experience I.E. the people you really want to be meeting and playing with) invites a SMN unless they are recruiting at the high levels so it is in no doubt that they have the experience required to make the most out of the SMNs class and are not just somebody who has lots of gil which you could buy on eBay.

[Deedlit]

While I will admit I did have Carbuncle Mitts (but didn't wear Astrals, oops, forgot to bring them) for the battles, the only difference there would be a couple more yagudo drinks at that level.

Lol, not exactly - just using the drinks gets you agro, as you should know. Please, you're gonna tell me that having those mitts doesn't give you QUITE an advantage? Pfft.

Honestly people - the lowbies are earning their summons. If they're that crappy as they level, just do what I do and mark off their names as you PT with them. It really does work wonders, and its amazing how much exp you can her per hour when you avoid crappy players.

Really now, if this was instituted back in september, would you be complaining? (this is for non-importers/jps)

I myself intend on completing the SMNs in the traditional route because of the extra experience of what it is to be a good SMN I will gain.

Please explain to me how playing any other job BESIDES smn is going to make you a good summoner? My bf plays a 55 PLD - should I assume when he dings 70 he's gonna be a 1337 summoner? Didn't think so.

Playing a SMN will make you a good SMN. That is all.

[SlottyM]

playing a whitemage helps you be a good summoner

Playing blackmage makes you realize the strengths and weaknesses of every avatar, which you should use vs every mob, which buff effects to use (or to just do damage, which is very effective as well)

^-^

[Deedlit]

Originally posted by SlottyM
playing a whitemage helps you be a good summoner

I'd counter that by saying that being a WHM helps you to be a good cure-tank. Cure-tanking isn't the be-all and end-all of being a SMN, and I avoid it when I can.

If anything, being a WHM that endlessly cures will make you take on the same role when playing a SMN - which is not the best way to play a SMN.

[ruffrydasean]

Stop using SMN Job as a way to be "1337" It's not like S-E is handing out avatars now, what is a SMN without their avatars as somebody said, No other job requires you to have another job at lvl 60+ to even obtain your "job tools".

If you want to be prestigeous(spelling), DONT use SMN, go get rank 10. go get your Relic EQ. go fight HNMs and get their uber drops, just don't use SMN please..your clouding up my "good air"

[Dux]

Originally posted by Deedlit
Please explain to me how playing any other job BESIDES smn is going to make you a good summoner? My bf plays a 55 PLD - should I assume when he dings 70 he's gonna be a 1337 summoner? Didn't think so.

Playing a SMN will make you a good SMN. That is all.

The highest concetration of SMNs in the game is in all probability to be found when trying to get the summons via the (now) traditional route. If you can get into a party with a SMN who is helping out other SMNs to get theirs you will learn through observation and askiing the Summoners.

Most Summoners with experience already have existing static parties (on Siren at least) and you won't really get to EXP with them so going via this route increases the chance of actually meeting one and learning as much as you can from them.

Like I implied in my initial responce I am not rushing to SMN and I am happy to do it this way and learn what I can as I go to protect all the good work the existing user base has put in.

Edit >> Further reading around seems to make it clear that all of this is a mute point anyway as its impossible for a bad player to solo the Avatar at 20 anyway. Still, I can see why people are upset.

[Rigsta]

Originally posted by Oceanfish
Please. A level 5 could make 20k gils per day, easily, let alone a level 30ish (probably WHM) who can probably use sneak/invis to finish other quests,etc.

I'm not "in fear about losing my special feeling" or whatever, they just don't deserve it at their levels in its current form.

Do tell me how a level 5 player might earn 20,000 Gil easily in a day. Besides getting lucky on crystals? (15-20 stacks at least).

Who the hell are you to say what people lower level than yourself deserve? I'm nearly level 60 myself and I applaud this change. Because SMN required unecessarily high-level jobs to get the avatars, it was far too exclusive. SMN as it stood was a members-only club of self-styled elites who apparantly (from these boards at least) think they're qualified to dictate what every aspiring SMN should have to do to get their avatars. Face it, the original system was flawed. It was introduced in Japan when the server population was predominantely high-level. I guess the original system seemed like a good idea at the time, and it is - IF you have a job that level already.

Does it really make sense to have to level an unrelated, and possibly unwanted job into the AF stages to make the job you actually want to play viable?

SMN should be just like any other advanved job. I'm sorry if your baby isn't quite as exclusive as it was before, but I'm sure you'll all get over it. Avatars should not be 1337ness trophies or "good adventurer" badges, or any other form of measuring stick. They are a job aspect. I'll copy and paste what I wrote on another forum:

Imagine another job being so restricted until you have another job at level 60. RNG not allowed to use a bow unless you do a lvl60 quest. DRK and PLD with no magic. Scratch that, DRK and PLD with magic but no access to their high offensive/defensive skills, respectively. Dragoon with no Wyvern and only regular polearm use. Bard with only first/second-tier songs. You're telling us it's fair for SMN to be a job with exclusively higher requirements than all the other advanced jobs?



It's not the end of the world, you just feel cheated that you couldn't try this new way. Which before you say anything, isn't easy. Please also refer to this thread:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...96559710&num=4