Why are people so mad at the level 20 Avatar Quests?

[thefallenranger]

oh i didn't read the post above me. but just an FYI if you win you dont get dropped off without a "Free ride home". it gives you an instant teleport scroll.

in other words dont do these with an instant warp scroll because they are ex/rare i think and can't get more than 1.

[TenshuRune]

Exactly. Every other job in the game, you really didn't have to wait until a certain lvl ( besides the adv. jobs, which SMN is anyways ) just to actually play the job. I mean, come on.. SMN is useless without any other avatars.

I don't see why people are so pissed off about this. I've met a few but it gives people that really want to play SMN.. a chance to play SMN. Getting to lvl 60 is no joy ride, and most people give up before then. I'm a 52 WHM and the only reason why I continued with WHM was just to reach lvl 60, when I could get more avatars for SMN.

But the experience is good. Knowing what to do in PTs and all that stuff... SMNs will need to know that.

Anyways, SMN is just so .. much. Before this came about, you had to work on a class to lvl 60, work on fame for all cities for the quests, then manage to find enough people to go with you.. blah. This gives people the oppurtunity to play SMN -- just have the resources to get the items you need - such as pies, drinks, etc - and go at it. No need to wait around for people that have the fame to join you and fight. ^^

[Soulcutter]

I sincerely hope that people come around on this whole mini-fork thing. I just posted to a thread where a 61WHM planned to quit playing over this issue! Unbelieveable.

I think the change was perfectly timed... Many of the PS2 players are starting to hit lv. 30 and look at advanced jobs, so why not make the SMN job viable for them? I would hope that the high-level SMNs would be spending more time trying to convince Square to change the Blood Pact timer to allow SMNs to play like a mage, which helps everyone. Let's face it... regardless of how you get the avatars, SMN is still vastly underpowered compared to the other mages. I started playing SMN to take a break from WHM, and now all I am is a WHM with a larger mana pool but weaker healing spells

I actually got kicked out of a party because I expressed my desire to summon the Atomic Rodent instead of healing (they didn't want to wait for a real WHM).

Please... fix Blood Pact. My suggestion is in the recent (compared to this post) petetion thread.

Tiresias

[Ariagiovanni]

I'm over it.

The job will be flooded, we'll have as many smn as we do drg and drk combined. It's ok, I will have Fenrir and they will not.

[Cara Zeltina]

I'm glad you're over it.
But the whole "I have something you don't, nya nya" thing is what i'm annoyed with.
People have been this way too long. I don't care what you have or don't have.
As long as it's a viable option for everyone at some point, that's what matters.

And I doubt the job will be that commonly used..
These fights may not be impossibly hard, like I earlier said, but they take pretty much perfect timing.
Unless you're dedicated to getting this job, you won't have the patience to get them all, or even one.
And as I also earlier stated, it's just a support job, when the average person realizes this, they'll give up.
The job isn't worth the effort, either way, without dedication to it.

[Shiia]

Thats what summoner job is. If you cannot dedicate yourself in getting the avatar, whispers for fenrir, accept the current truth that you are a member who is "good to have but not necessary" fact and accept the fact that you are a "Weak Whm with some extra" then you will not go far.

Its sad but this is the state of the summoner right now unless they make some changes. The petition that I found in this board states some good point what summoner is lacking, and what possible modification can be done to improve the job.

This is one of the reasons why people also say to lvl your WHM to 60. If you don't like it, you might not like the summoner job since at the current state... what you do is not much different from a whm.

[TenshuRune]

Yes, thank you Cara. People need to get over the whole "I'm better than you" attitude.. this is a game, okay? People play it to have fun in their own way. Why do people have to think they are higher or better? I guess it's natural but all I can do is laugh at you kinds of people.

That's another good point mentioned, too. Summoner is a purely support class. If people cannot realize this, then they will not have fun. I've loved Summoners since they were introduced to the FF series.. Always have. I don't think I'd ever give up the idea of me being a summoner.

This is an MMORPG, though. If you had a SMN that could do the things they could in the single player FF-series.. They'd be the most used, most powerful class in the game. That's what Square saw and yes.. SMN isn't as powerful as we'd all hoped it'd be. But still, if a person can pull off Summoner the exact way it should be.. It's the most beautiful thing in the game. I've only seen two or three SMNs do this. SMN has its advantages over a WHM in later lvls, so if you play SMN, get past the fact that you are mainly a heal tank UNTIL you and your avatars are strong enough to do the things that make a SMN a SMN

Just like RDM.. what the hell is the point at early levels? What makes them so great from lvl 1-30? They get Enchantment in earlier levels.. oh wow. Until they get Dispell, Refresh, etc.. they're basically a back up healer and/or defeebler.

And that's my two cents. :sweat:

[TenshuRune]

On the topic of Fenrir, though..

You realize that Fenrir came out like two months ago, and this game has been around for how long? Oh yeah, almost 2 and half years and there are plenty of SMNs that didn't get the enjoyment of having Fenrir while leveling earlier.

So don't think you're better than people who don't have Fenrir early on.

[Navia]

Fenrir raises the bar in terms of what summoners can bring to a PT now.
SMN without fenrir are okay, but partying with SMN with fenrir that uses monster atk/evasion down on incredibly tough++ monster lets you see xp chain 5-6 easily and get 260-280xp a kill.
Playing a melee job with over +20acc bonus in gear, you notice the difference when fenrir is there using his dispel ability and making the monster easier to hit for all melee job.

[TenshuRune]

Okay so what? Fenrir is awesome, I realize this. But again.. 280exp a kill is kind of outrageous. You really don't need THAT MUCH a kill. Don't get me wrong, that's awesome exp. But if you're still getting.. say, 200+ exp per kill as it is.. what is there to complain about?

SMN without fenrir are okay

......... ok.

[Navia]

Fenrir at least gives SMN more to do than just being invited to a party to be a WHM with blinkga. Using fenrir gives the SMN the option to play more of an enfeeble/debuff role, like a RDM, which helps the job break out of the mold alittle.
As for the xp I guess you could settle for 200xp a kill by chain #2 but when you start needing 10k-30k xp per level higher up you want more efficiency.

[Caspianeq]

Here is my 5 gil to all this subject ^^

Yes being SMN was always my dream, and I worked for it very hard. When I was ready I went to Jeuno, and I shouted for high lvl people to help me. I shouted, and waited, waited and shouted, spend so much time asking for help - but nobody came, nobody was interested. So I give up, and my dream was shattered...

Now I can go alone, and fight with avataru on my own without involving others in this. I can prove myself that im worthy such challenge. What can be wrong in this?? Why people cannot understand such idea?? Have anybody tried to kill avatar after this new update?? Everybody talks as if they were experts on everything - so have anybody experience such battle YET??

Another thing. Blm sub for summoner. For me its the best cause as SMN i need the most MP, and BLM will boost my MP which is great. I do not intend to use black magic, since I will use Avatars all the time - thats my main job after all. I need highest MP and BLM sub will help me on this. I experienced once a situation when person with subbed WHM was asked to use Cure spells all the time. If anyone would ask me such question I would feel INSULTED. My sub is for ME and nobody else. It enhances my MAIN job - job that I always wanted to do. It seems like a lot of people forgot true meaning of subjob quest they did in Mhaura or Selbina, and words of Isacio or Vera. Try to review what they told u that day...

SMN job is still very difficult for person lvl 20. Have u forgot that we must raise our fame?? It requires doing so many quests all over again - this isnt easy... Also I can imagine myself fighting with only Carbuncle at lvl 15 with parties at Valkrum Dunes - everybody will LAUGH at me... If high level people (60+) are upset, because for them getting avatar in their opinion was tougher, try to do that alone as lvl 20 smn - and find out on your own if it its a "piece of cake". And if u r lvl 60+ already - then its good. I feel respect for u since u put so much effort gaining so much experience. U will need it in OTHER battles - nothing went in vain.

SMN job is still a great challenge - the rules has changed, but its still great challenge - the one that I shall accept to prove myself that Im worthy...

Greetings, Cas ^^

[Shiia]

You will still need to lvl to at least 60 with any job till you get the Fenrir whispers. Then 70 to fight him. People expect summoners to have fenrir at 60s, sad but many JP people I have communicated and partied with already had Fenrir. So I would say having another job 60+ is a plus and never a minus.

About BLM sub. You won't ever empty your mp with blood pacts unless you spam with offensive use which deals close to nothing till you get the lvl 70 bloodpact or 65 for Fenrir. Also, you will lose the ability to cast sneak and invis one of the vital spell when you go to a camp spot deep within the dungeon. I can go on... but for a summoner whm works best, if not rdm when you already have a whm.

[Teffie]

Originally posted by TenshuRune
But again.. 280exp a kill is kind of outrageous. You really don't need THAT MUCH a kill. Don't get me wrong, that's awesome exp. But if you're still getting.. say, 200+ exp per kill as it is.. what is there to complain about?

So your saying you wouldn't rather have 280exp a kill? o_o
I don't know about you, but at my level having @43,000 exp, I'd like it.




Fenrir DOES Raise the Bar for SMN's all around.
Yes, there have been SMN's without Fenrir who have gotten to 75
But times are different now.

If there are 2 SMN's seeking, both same level and same sub, but one says they have Fenrir, and the other one does not. Who do you think would get the first invite?

What Navia says is totally true, SMN's w/ Fenrir definitly made SMN's a job worthy of putting into a PT. Let's be honest here, SMN's just doing Blinkga and being a Gimp WHM was their original Job. My SMN friends (whom at 55-65) even tell me that they spend tons of time seeking, and not getting a PT because they are Fenrir-Less (which is now corrected since we beat Fenrir)


You cannot argue that a SMN without Fenrir is in any way better than a SMN with Fenrir. For those people who complain due to losing SMN's 'show off' value, can still 'show off' if they have Fenrir, since lv.20 SMN's cannot fight Fenrir unless they are much higher. For this I really do not mind that they put these Mini-Avatar Battles.





On another note, I have always wanted to be a SMN, way before I wanted to play BRD. I started FFXI on NA-PC Release, heard about getting the Avatars and that I needed a lv.60 Job in order to do it, so I picked a job and got to 60 and got the Avatars the Original way.

PS2 players come along, not too long in their arrival they get this Mini-Avatar Patch, so they can play a SMN if they wanted to really early on like I did.

How is that fair? I spend countless hours leveling a job to play a SMN, while PS2'ers just trot along with their level 20 Carbie Only SMN's and get them all.

This is one of the reasons that Many people are terribly angered with this. But quite frankly I don't really mind anymore, since Fenrir is still a difficult challenge, and I can get him, while lv.20 SMN's cannot.

[TenshuRune]

I'm not even going to dig into this. But all I will say is, some people aren't as lucky or don't have as many friends as other people. I myself do not have alot of higher lvl friends that can just hand me Fenrir at lvl 60. That means, in order for me to obtain Fenrir, I'd have to get to atleast lvl 65-70 just for consideration.

THAT is not fair to those that aren't as fortunate as the other.