SMN/RDM..An alternative guide..My experiences.

[tazirai]

HI gang this Guide is meant to used by those who dotn want to be the traditonal SMN/WHM combo.
Its not a comparison of the SMN/WHM over SMN/RDM.
Its an alternative.

I play a smn/rdm combo now. Itll be my main combo for the forseeable future.
This guide is meant to give you Pros/cons of the combo. Since Sheila was kind enough to do a full guide on the summoner and its abilities. I will only refence them in regards to the appropriate level of uses and the ways they can be used in regards to rdm as sub.

One myth id like to dispel:

A smn is not a poor whm,period.
A summoner is first and foremost a summoner,/??? secondly.
Your job is to use what strengths and weaknesses square gave you to optimum effect and play skill.

If you want to play as a poor whm feel free to do so.
If you want to play outside the box you are free to do so.


ITS ALWAYS up to the player to work with what you have and make it work.
Its not the job per say but how you perform the job.

Smn'ers are versatile and can do many things with the mp they are givenand their stats.

REQUEST:
I will leave helpful and informative posts in the guide. if you disagree say so but do not flame (send me a PM if you need to.)

Thanks to tomoh and chenn hope this will help those guys and others who want a choice.
Thanks to sheila for putting in hard work on her guide .
Thanks to all future contributors.



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EDIT: taking a break for a bit hehe. typing for two hours ^^

EDIT2: Will finish guied when wake up sleepy now then you can make posts as you see fit.

EDIT: Back to work on the guide now till about 3:30 AM its 3:15 now . just gonna update the items list now


EDIT4:23am(6:23PM jst))
I will finish the PT configurations after waking up and finish the work on the Items section also.

**********People can begin to post replies in the thread now. Just remember to provie insight.. not flame material or insults..keep the thread clean.. send those people or me PM's if theres any issues.********************

thx for support guys.

[tazirai]

Purpose / Role

This a listing of the purposes of the SMN/RDM in a PT and solo.


Welcome to this section.

As a solo smn/rdm your purpose is quite simple really , survive and get stronger.
Or get Koed and lose faith in your skill.

As a rdm first i chose the independent route of survive and survive well.
If you use that philosophy as a smn/rdm it will carry you a long way to happiness or at least satisfaction.

The best way to do this is to learn your jobs strengths in all situations from BCNM's to missions to level up .
Also focus on those areas you need to improve in to make yourself better. Whether they be enhanced macroes, Practicing pulling Nms with smn/thf (harder than it sounds)or dragging along friends to heal you as you try to do things you did as a rdm.


Your role in this world is live and become the best you can be(real life advice also)^^.
Grow stronger prove yourself to yourself and others.
In a level up context you are an ultimate support role just like the smn/whm.
Both jobs fill niches, the smn/rdm though fills a nonstandard niche in its role as a debuffer healer and nuker.

Beware this role WILL hurt your wrists and fingers, its really tough to master doing more than spamming cure and such.

[tazirai]

Stats to focus on

Good stats for the smn/rdm to work on to increase effectivness.

Heres a good thing the STAT .(singular) you should focus on the most is INT.

So many reasons why.
1) When doing MB it helps determine how much damage you will do.. rather the variant damage of the spell. Which ranges from 5-7% extraper use.

2)It helps determine if an enfeeble is resisted or not.
This is so important as a smn/rdm its not funny. The more INT you have the better you are.
Dont worry if some spells are resisted , the vast majority will not be. its really an important area to work on. even as rdm main more INT is very important.

3) More INT = less wasted MP, see above, the more enfeebling done the less you have to recast.

4)as rdm subbed your enfeebles will be capped so its very important to boost this stat. Some will argue that all your spells will be halved and even reduced to 25% effeciveness as rdm sub.
this isnt true in all cases. some spells a rdm gets before others like whm or blm. we generally get enfeebles before other jobs.

5)really no difference using rdm as sub to smn, over rdm as sub to blm or whm. So if you boost your int when rdm is subbed to other jobs its a good practice to use here.


MND is another good stat to increase but secondly to INT.

1)Mnd affects spell damage taken. You shouldnt be getting hit much anyway. If you are something needs to be silenced asap.

2) Mnd deals with white magic effectiveness also. like whm debuffs and heals and such.
The main problem with this stat is that in its use this way. Your spells will eventually be capped.
Example: CureI will eventually reach the only heal 30 HP cap , whether or not you have tons of mnd gear or not. A whm with full MND gear will do maybe 1=2 points more on the same cure.
and as far as duration goes on defensive spells just recast them.
It will only add maybe a few seconds or so to the durations.


HP is gained a little from having rdm subbed . not tons, and more surviveability the better. cant use all that MP if your kissing Gaia.

The HP gain will not be much anyway but it does help when dealing with adds and pops.

(MP) second to INT this IS your most important asset. You are an ocean of magic energy. what better way to become more powerful than to increase the size of your ocean.
out of all the available slots available to this job. theres should be a +mp item in EVERY slot.

The more the better cannot be stated enough.
The uses of this pool of power is known to all mages so no reason to restate the obvious.


AGI not so important in my opinion. the ability to evade a blow will be capped anyway if you are subbed rdm and soloed enough.

Str: We are weak , we have astral entities to be our strength.
Dont look to your strength to save you, except in rare instances of fighting weak mons or doing some skill up.

vit: We get hit we die, wether we are galka or taru, our armor is made of colored hefty bags. more wont help in most instances, leave it to the tanks.

Chr: Im still learning the effect this has on the summoner

Dex: Is good for soloingand getting skill up it really not neccessary for much else.




Heres a comparison of me as hume smn/rdm
and me as hume smn/whm with no items at level 56 currently.

You can see not much differnces stat wise.
smn/whm
LVL HP MP str dex vit agi INT MND CHR
56 694 611 43 45 43 49 55 59 57

smn/rdm
LVL HP MP str dex vit agi INT MND CHR
56 708 596 43 47 42 49 57 57 56


Gains :14 HP, +2 dex, +2 INT,
Loses: 15 Mp, -1 ViT, -2MND, -1 CHR

with items my hp isnt the actuall number above its a hellova lot less.

my actual hp is 656 and mp is 814 (864 with rolanberry pies.)

[tazirai]

SPELLS and when..

This lists the spells you get as a smn/rdm outside of the summons.
And some basic utilities for them.


The list of rdm spells up to level 56 SMN/RDM where I am .

The key to rememebr here is that you will get some spells later than whm or blm subbed. some will be of equal level and at full effect.
some non useful spells will be skipped.

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This may be confusing , Im using the level as a SMN/RDM not as a RDM of that level .

Ex: dia is level 1 for redmage anyway so will be available to a smn/rdm at level 1.
Cure is available at level 3 for a rdm and level 6 for smn/rdm.

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level 1
Dia: good for opening an attack and weaking the monster a little while pet attacks.


level 6
Cure: up till this point your main cure power came from carbuncles ruby light . Now you canheal yourself.
and may have even teamed up with another by now.

level 8
Stone: This is good to use just after dia and to damage a foe while its still coming to you. or as added damage while pet attacks.


level10
Poison: use this right after Dia and sic your Pet on the foe. Great DOT power.

Barstone: very useful
if you are still soloing great defense against worms.


level 12
Paralyze :Good on those rabbits and others with nasty aoe attacks.

***** Your spells still stick pretty good at this level.

level 14
Protect : good spell to use if youare still soloing. if you are in a PT with a whm save the mp for other spells.

Barsleep : depends on where you level up and if still soloing.
if you are from windurst and still going after plant boys it will help some.

Level 16
Blind: awesome at this level , by now you are in a PT and its good
to use if you have no blm or rdm in the PT.

******Your spells still stick very good , but its time to start on those INT up items.


level 18
Water This spells effectiveness is determinedon where you are leveling up. I found it good to use in korroloka rather than at valkurm.

Bar water : good to use if your PT has no whm and you are leveling on crabs or pugils. defense is the same.



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Level 20
Barpoison.
Havent found a really good use for ths spell at this level. not many critters smack you for poison damage.

Bio is great if you have no BLM in the PT , and for some reason on ramuh its possible that you may not. a rdm in the PT with this is great and you can use it either before the rdm or use it once the other bio effect wears off.

Bind: never use it even as rdm main never used it much ^^
the duration kinda sucks.

level 24
Aquaveil is your best friend. especially if leveling at the jungles.
onion boys there have a tendency to ge away from tanks. and you really dont wanna get while casting a cure or doing a summons and being interrrupted. I am a firm beliver in this spell. especially during AA fights.

level 26
SLow : i use this spell evenif theres a whm or blmor rdm in the PT.
On tote or tote2 sometimes a fully powered slow wont stick. so the more slows the better.

level 28
Cure2 great to help with really tough heals. BUt seriously if you are doing your job you shouldnt be healing much and the whm is bored.
The whm at this level SHOULD have more mp than you.

Aero : good only for magic bursting on some renkeis and based on what you a re fighting.
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level 32
Enthunder : good to use on monsters weak to it and for skill ups only.

level 34
bar fire : good if you are in rolanberry or somewhere fighting goblins and theres and you want to gaurantee personal safety.

level 36
silence: ALWAYS useful no matter the job or level. IF yousee some else cast silence good chance you should too, same thing as slow.

***sadly if your INT isnt at least +7(-)+10, your chances of it sticking are low.


level 38

Fire: good on monster that are weak to it, expect normal damage to range from 45-67, (unless taru) and about 45-110 on a MB.
sometimes youll even outdamage a blm^^ funny but rare.


level 40
Sneak.. words can only describe the powerful nature of this spell. since its good to help the whm or other casters sneak the PT.

Level 42
Gravity: same as slow and silence cast yours along with the normal rdm , or white or black mage with rdm sj.

the less a foe evades the better.

This spell tends to stick pretty well. at level 56 though your INT should be +15 or higher.

Regen: This is a great help to a full whm , I tend to use it on the pullers and secondary attackers. while the WHM uses regen2 on the tank.

level 46
Blink: by this time yuo have garuda blink and titan blink..SO WHAT!!. If you are in a place like crawlers and trying to sneak your way thru and you catch aggro, whats faster garuda blink or yours? ^^.
serious dont let garuda blnk go to your head. 3 evades and its gone and you may have to wait the full minute to recast. just use yours instead. it WILL stop you from being interrupted when doing something.



level 48
Blizzard. good to use on crabs and flying critters great on MB, same damage as fire normally , on MB can do up to 125


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Level 50
Invisible : same as sneak, the safer you are the better shape your exp is in .

Sleep: No one can argue the effectiveness of the sleep spell.
i highly reccomend you make sure your INT is 15+ if in a high aggro area, or one with a lot of link mons.


******This is where leveling sucks and is tedious

level 52
CureIII same as first two spells.
chances are good that whm's are about as available as 10000000 dollar bills.
being able to do a high cure is ver helpful. BUT if you are performing well and the mons is non AOE type. you should only need to heal the tank.

level 54
Protect 2
same as the cure3 example but pld should have pro3 by now and
and the full rdm or so in the PT should be the same way , if whm is non available, which is quite possible.
The order of priority, attackers pro3 mages pro2 at best.





thats it for the spell section as i get higher ill come back and add edits.

[tazirai]

Summons abilities in context of smn/rdm

This is the focus of this area, using summons powers to weaken your foe.
Also examines the blood pact weakness.


Lets start with the weakness of Blood pact ability.

Blood pacts basic issue isnt the 1 minute timer of its use. But the fact that its 1 minute period for all summons and their powers.
this really makes summoner less effective to me.

the main problem is that when you cast say Dia , you have to wait to recast it.
but if you cast dia2 you are not dependent on wether Dia 1 has finished refreshing or not.

Its the biggest issue with blood pact.
I have a pact with 7 avatars, yet in oder to use their independent powers i have to wait 1 minute per power, per summons.

A great rework would be 1 min timer per summons power.
example:Ifrit has say 6 powers, You use 1 and then need to wait 1 minute to reuse ANY of his powers again.
Id like it if you can use Punch(then a timer for punch starts),
then follow it up with douple punch(on its own timer of 1 min).

Wed be highly effectve without being to powerful.
during genkai 5 you need to use astral flow 2 times on maats elemental.
so a good thing sould be say : summon avatar do astral flow, wait on mp to regain then , you still have to wait 1 minute, to use astral again, But are fee to use another power.


Onto the summons powers as a smn/rdm.

Even though a summons elemental powers dont combine with renkei they do stack with other spells.

example:Tail whip causes gravity effect ,ths also staks with the gravity spell.
lets look at some good buffs and enfeebles.


Carbuncle:

Posion nails : sees barely effective on its own. BUt combine it with poison1-2 and dia(bio)1 or 2. and see what you get . very effective on high defense mons.

Shining ruby stacks with protect and shell and gives your tanks and attackers a good first buff against the first few attacks to the PT.

good to use alongside garudas blink until you get stoneskin.


Ifirit:
ifrit is not really PT friendly until level 38 , and even then only for maybe 1 renkei per mons, BUT if its an important renkei, like the one that will kill a mons, then use war cry for the attack up. make sure those hits hit.

Titan
is a little more friendly, use his Rock throw along with slow on mandragoras and youll see a great improvemtn in PT effectiveness. Later megalith throw enhances that effect.

also use his binding power along with bind on a monster that likes to move alot.
the main problem with titan is hes slow and misses alot. HIGH INT is needed for his attacks to work well.


Leviathan IS GREAT^^.
His tail whip along with gravity will cause mons like Onion boys to die VERY quickly. the y cant evade and are slowed to a crawl.

also depending on summonig skill,His Spring water heals the PT and removes the odd status effect. great for whm less PTs or on those bad pulls.
combine that with a ???/whm and can heal the PT to near full health.

Garuda.....Do i need to explain ^^

ill just use hastega and her whispering wind.

hastega is great to use on slow high powered PTs, like a PT with a drk ,sam,drg.

whispering wind is a less mp and no status removal group heal. very good for emergencies.


Ramuh
His two big ones are
Enthunder is good only on crabs and pugils, but has a short duration and kinda ineffective at high level.
Thunder spark is great if it was a AOE paralyze spell, since it stacks with normal paralyze.



as a smn/rdm you need to discover what works for you and how..
the right number of summons boosts and enfeebles and the right combo of spells.

[tazirai]

Foods and Items

What to eat as a smn/rdm to max your capabilities.
Great items to use to boost int and MP

Foods:

INT up
(Fruits)
Faerie Apple AGI-4, INT+2, DUR:30m
San d'Or. Grape AGI-5, INT+3, DUR30m ?
Kazham Pineapl. AGI-5 INT+3, DUR30m
Watermelon AGI-6 INT+4, DUR30m

(Stew)
Brain Stew ?Str,dex,agi,mnd,chr,VIT -5 INT+5
Dur 1h notes :Heal HP+3 Heal MP+3

(MP up + INT up)

Apple Pie+1 MP30, INT+4. DUR 1h
*NOTE: Heal MP+2
Apple Pie MP25, AGI-1, INT+3, DUR30m
Sweet Bkd. Apple MP25, INT+4, DUR1h
*NOTE: Heal MP+2
Baked Apple MP20, AGI-1, INT+3 DUR30m

Melon Pie+1 MP30 INT+5 DUR1h
*Note: Heal MP+2
Melon Pie MP25 AGI-1 INT+4 DUR30m

Rolanberry Pie+1 MP60, INT+3, DUR1h30m
Rolanberry Pie MP50, AGI-1, INT2 DUR1h

JUICE: VERY important for us escpecially if a full rdm not around.

Orange Juice MP+1/3sec (Total:20) Duration:1minute
Apple Juice MP+1/3sec (Total:45) Duration:2m15
Pineapple Juice MP+1/3sec (Total:80) Duration:4minutes
Grape Juice MP+2/3sec (Total:60) Duration1m30s
Melon Juice MP+2/3sec (Total:90) Duration2m15s



(Items)

Wands are a smn/rdm best friend

****Wands****
Level1
Maple Wand Int/Mnd+1
Maple Wand+1 Int/Mnd+2

level9
Willow Wand Int/Mnd+2
Willow Wand+1 Int/Mnd+3


Level18
Yew Wand Int/Mnd+3
Yew Wand+ Int/Mnd+4

Level28
Eremite's Wand MP+5 INT+2 MND+2 Spell interruption rate 25% down
Eremite's Wand+1 MP+6 INT+2 MND+2 Spell interruption rate 25% down


level48
Rose Wand Int/Mnd+5
Rose Wand+1 Int/Mnd+6

Level 50
Lilith's Rod MP+10 INT+5 Add Effect : MP Drain

level57
Fey Wand INT+7 Add Effect : MP Drain

level 60
Ebony Wand Int/Mnd+6
Ebony Wand+1 Int/Mnd+7

(Head Items) @@@@@@@ Basically all mP items great for us.

Lvl1
Copper Hairpin HP-2 MP+5
Copper Hairpin+1 HP-2 MP+6

Lvl5
Bone Hairpin HP-1 MP+3
Bone Hairpin+1 HP-1 MP+4

Lvl10
Brass Hairpin HP-4 MP+10
Brass Hairpin+1 HP-4 MP+11?

Lvl12
Sage Circlet def:6 Int+1

Lvl14
Shell Hairpin HP-3 MP+9 [WTR]+6
Shell Hairpin+1 HP-3 MP+10 [WTR]+7


Lvl20
Silver Hairpin HP-6 MP+15
Silver Hairpin+1 HP-6 MP+16


Lvl30
Horn Hairpin HP-4 MP+12 [ERT]+8
Horn Hairpin+1 HP-4 MP+13 [ERT]+9


Lvl40
Electrum Hairpin ?HP-10 MP+25 Castle Oztroja (Tresure Chest)

Lvl50
Gold Hairpin HP-12 MP+30
Gold Hairpin+1 HP-12 MP+33


Lvl60
Evoker's Horn Def15 MP+20 INT+3 Summoning Magic skill skill+5 Summon : Enmity-3

@@@@(Neck)@@@@ FInd a good balance between INT and MP with these items.


Bastok items give +mp
good to use for awhile

Lvl20
Black Neckerchief INT+1 [DKN]+3


Lvl38
Spirit Torque MP+10 Evasion+5
BCNM : Palborough Mines (Star Orb)


Lvl59
Star Necklace CHR+3 Converts 15 HP to MP
Windurst Quest : ”Crying Over Onions”



@@@@(Gloves)@@@@ basically to give mp up

Lvl20
Carbuncle Mitts DEF:5 MP+14 Hidden Effect : Carbuncle's cost-4
Temple of Uggalepih : Tonberry NM ”Crimson-toothed Pawberry”

LVL27
Various RSE equipment for each race.


Lvl36
New Moon Armlets MP+8
Windurst Quest : ”Three canes”

[tazirai]

Levels and tactics

From level 1+ some god advice on some tactics to use

[tazirai]

Various PT configurations and your role

This is where you may findyour self in certain PT styles and your role in them.
These are PTs I have been in so I relate from my experience only.


@@@This section will deal with us and various mages in combos not the attackers.@@
The attacker configuration is a giving, no matter which jobs they take.
Mages present the uniqueness to the summoner/rdm or summoner/whm.
They will determine the usefullness of your job in the pT.
This is also the part where people will say the SMN belongs as a poor whm role in the PT.
I disagree with this wether you are the smn/whm or smn/rdm.
IF you decide to just spam cures and remove status fine, its your prerogative, I like to do things in a PT, from cures to status and other things.

Configuration one. PT's containing....

1)(RDM/WHM(blm)): Is there to do the enfeeblements and cure statuses with whm subbed. if the rdm is of a levelhigh enough , then they will enhance the PT with hastes and refresh. With BLM subbed they will get INT bonus to do more damage with attack spells and even wider array of enfeebles.

(BLM/whm(rdm)): IS nearly same as the rdm except that he does ALL the super damage elemental attacks, and some negative status debuffs on the foe.
Not really an enhancer m,ainly a pure damage dealer and back up healer.

(SMN/RDM) can help the rdm who may be low on mp with enfeebling and and MB damage. depending on the foe we are better or less effective with elemental attacks. ALSo depending on the foe we can use leviathan to remove a single group status from the whole PTand cure them all, which helps alot , during those -na timer refreshes.




2) PT contains a
(BRD/whm(rdm): Mainly there to keep downtime to a minimum and make sur ethe monsters die faster and mages stay in the game.
They also enhance the attacks and stats of the attackers.

SMN/RDM role in this configuration depends on wether a a whm is there or a blm or rdm .

IF a blm or rdm ,then SMN/rdm follows its role in configuration 1, based solely on what you are fighting.

The best configuration here is with a rdm, past 41 since your MP gain will be VERY high, thereby making your PT live longer and kill faster.
Your MB damage along with the rdm's MB will be okay but not as high as that with a BLM in the PT. But again if your attacker configuration is designed for speed then you are okay.

A speed PT for example is a Sam/thf, Rng/thf, Nin/war and brd,rdm,smn cconfiguration.

3) This happens alot at my level..PT contains...

SMN/WHM: This is the typical way alot of people see the summoners sj.
It has tons of bonuses to aid the PT.. the GA spells for healing a PT fighting say crabs and onion boys..
NA spells to remove statuses from those said foes.. and raising ability after level 50 (this is for emergency only) you really want a raise2 after this level.
Ths biggest downside however is aggro management,, which is LOW , if the sumoners(both of us )are doing our jobs.

IF theres a rdm in this PT , your job is to mainly support the rdm with enfeebles stacking if one misses or is resisted.

If theres a BLM.. then you should make sure the BLm and the main tank have at least blink and or stoneskin.. If BLM likes to use ancient magic they will aggro asap. and a lot of times the mons will beeline right to him.
and hell take a hit or two, sad thing is most BLM will be WAY back from the PT so its good to use stoneskin or blink on you two while the smn/whm uses it on the attackers.

with a BRD.. your PT is designed for the endurance run , not fast and not to slow..but steady damage and exp gain...


Your main goal with another SMN in the PT is to alternate abilities..

[tazirai]

Pros/Cons.. Afterthoughts

AS above

[tazirai]

Links for fellow summoners

had good links and also the video of
Beatnik vs maat
http://beafniku.hp.infoseek.co.jp/index.htm

Zchance website
http://zchance.cside21.com/ff11/?03050000

SMn with carcbuncle LS
http://pol-world.com/smn/index.php?menu=board
they have a english info also

Mysterytour
a great site of various info.
http://mysterytour.web.infoseek.co.j.../us/fflive.htm

[RollChan300]

Good Job! ^_^ I really like this SMN Guide. I'm a SMN/WHM but I like what this guide is projecting. SMN isn't another WHM, the job of a SMN is to summon. Sure it's OK to cure at times but SMNs aren't meant to cure. When I play SMN I always use an ability rest then use it again. I play SMN the fun way and give my pt enhancements such as Blink and Enthunder (XD yes even that). I cure when the WHM needs help and if theres no WHM I play WHM. But a SMNs job is to summon. Don't think a SMN is just a messy cure tank cause that will just bore you *My 2 gil*

[Teefa]

Basically, if no WHM is available. Then my SMN gets used as one. SMN probably works well as a healer if your tank is a NIN. I think I stood around just summoning with one. RDM is ok as a sub, but then again...it doesn't give that needed MP Boost you'll need. And curaga or divine seal or cure status ailments. Sure....if you have Leviathan, that may solve the problem. But it takes time to summon Leviathan. And a lot of MP is being burned if all you wanna do is cure a Curse or Poison. Also, Spring Water can't cure things like Evasion Down and stuff.

I PTed with a SMN RDM. He only had about 800+ MP and I had 1000+ MP. He was 1 level higher than me. Phalanx might be fun, but its not really needed. And Dispel will most likely be resisted with the low enfeebling skill capped by the time you can use it. Otherwise...a good SMN can be a healer and summon with you being the main and someone to do the back up healing. At later levels though, you'll most likely want someone to cast Protect IV and Shellra IV. Light Spirits would be more helpful if they did Protectra spells. They're able to do Curaga.

RDM sub might be more better if you went RDM/BLM to obtain the class and avatars and don't want to spend time leveling a whm just for subbing. But I think its more beneficial in the long run.

[tazirai]

Originally posted by Teefa


RDM sub might be more better if you went RDM/BLM to obtain the class and avatars and don't want to spend time leveling a whm just for subbing. But I think its more beneficial in the long run.

Good Point teefa and thanks for your input..
At first I basically didnt want to level whm ..still kinda dont . BUt i will since i want to be able to use all available mage classes..including BRD.(i consider it a song mage). Im taking all to 37 minimum as subs to my main two jobs rdm and smn. or Vice versa.

As far as RDM mp goes at level 50+ its all about your gear especially if you are hume or elvaan. You get some really nice equips then and can use those to boost your mp.
In Pts where we dont have a whm , I will be primary healer.
I eat mp foods like rolanbery pies and such +50 mp gain .
And i suggest we fight monsters where leviathan can be used to optimum affect . mainly against crabs birds raptors etc.
I wont status remove on any one player but if two or more is needed i will.
I cant deny that whm as sub is great . but rdm is another option for those that dont want to level it or cant spend time to level it.
I DO however reccomend that if you started as a BLM/)rdm or whm) you take either one to a highe rlevel if you want to be a SMN.

thx again for your insight ^^

[Snafu-SI]

This post comes in pretty handy as I'm plan to be a RDM/SMN, and SMN/RDM, thanks Tai for all the tips, really gives me some good ideas for the best way to approach it when I do.

now.. if I can just get me the rest of the avatars.

[Duzzell]

i agree

Ive just started out as a sum/rdm and i think its a great combo. I didnt become a sumoner to be a backup healer. I become one so i can kick around enimies with my avatars and RDM still allows me to enfeeble/ heal (if needed) and use many of my enhancing magic. I think Sum/Whm is just easier for people to play if they wanna be stuck being backup healer. I think that we summoners are best fit to use our abilities summoning/enfeebling. So i totally agree with this guide. Good job dude!!!