Summoner Fix Petition

[Geege]

Please help support, if you agree, the petition being built for Square to consider changing the Summoner Job to make it live up to its expectations and be worth the effort needed to obtain the Job and Avatars.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ffxisumm/petition.html

[DJplaeskool]

Those are some pretty good suggestions...
but another asinine "petition" won't solve anything...

[Gallie]

Hmmm

I'm not sure I agree with those fixes.

Right now I think the major fixes should address the casting time of avatars, the avatars spells, and the benefits of keeping an avatar summoned.

Summoning an avatar takes way to much time. Add to that the time taken to use a special and usually the mob is dead by the time you are ready. This needs to be speed up.

To encourage players to keep avatars summoned I think they should have an avatar TP bar. This would effect the strength of the avatar's specials by either making them stronger or reducing the variance in the damage they do, or possibly a combination of the two.

[Karinya]

Any fix that focuses on Primes is the wrong fix, because it doesn't address the REAL problem with summoner: a summoner below lv 55-60 is gimp unless he begs someone to kill the Primes for him.

For the same reason, Fenrir doesn't really help most summoners, because they can't get him until it is too late. I'm sure he's nice to take into Dynamis, but you have to get to that level first - i.e., without Fenrir.

In order for summoner to become a viable job for all players, and not a near-useless toy for people who have already finished the game, elemental spirits need to be improved until they are useful. Either drawing more hate (they have the physical dmg resistance of wild elementals and would make useful tanks; summoning a new one is cheap for the damage it soaks up before dying), dealing more damage, casting more spells or several of these. Blood Pact abilities would be nice, Astral Flow abilities are necessary (how about the BLM ancient magics? obviously weakened at lower levels, but it would be interesting to see spirits casting Flood, Quake, Flare etc.)

I wouldn't mind seeing summon damage/hate increased for Primes too. But a fix can't JUST focus on Primes or it won't be an adequate fix for summoners below level 55.

[SlottyM]

I find my summoner to be extremely valuable and powerful, only drawback to the job I see is the reuse time on bloodpact.

[Alagor]

i'd say lower teh cost of keeping elementals out by about 1/2 at lower lvls and then elevate them at teh current pace once you get higher.

Also they need to cast more spells more offten, and a hate buff would be nice.

[Spellbinder]

My only problem with the job as it is now is the Elemental II and IV spells (doing half the damage of a Blm's Elemental I spell is a shame) and the Blood Pact timer should be tweaked a bit. So I pretty much agree with SlottyM.

[Navia]

Bloodpact timer is what really holds the job back before level 70.

Stuff like Fenrir eclipse bite or garuda predator claw does over 2k damage at level 70+, if bloodpact timer was shorter SMN job at the highend would be out of control.
Yes spirits are awful, but I am guessing they dont want people to level SMN with spirits only or they would have made them cheaper by now.


If Fenrir isn't a hint from Square-Enix that you should get a job like whm to 70 before playing SMN I dont know what is :sweat:

I've partied with a SMN in my LS that has fenrir while we did missions to do rank6 - all I have to say is I would feel gimped if I didn't have Fenrir. Fenrir is the best :
I want fenrir before playing SMN more, even if it means I need to level WHM to 70+.

I get my SMN fix with it subbed for garuda blink right now :sweat:

[Karinya]

If Square Enix wanted to make the level requirement for SMN 60, they could have done so. Or they could have made the quest difficult at lower levels, like DRG, SAM or NIN (try completing any of those at level 30 without some considerably higher level help; but SMN is easily soloed at 30).

Like it or not, the level requirement for SMN is 30. That means, according to Square Enix, you only have to be level 30 in another job to become a summoner.

This is why "well, if you have all the primes and Fenrir, SMN isn't that bad" is not an adequate answer to the problems SMN has (and, even if you HAVE all the primes and Fenrir, it's still just summon, bloodpact, dismiss, cure).

SMN is not meant to have a level 60 requirement, or it would HAVE a level 60 requirement. It's as simple as that.

[Deedlit]

Originally posted by Karinya
If Square Enix wanted to make the level requirement for SMN 60, they could have done so. Or they could have made the quest difficult at lower levels, like DRG, SAM or NIN (try completing any of those at level 30 without some considerably higher level help; but SMN is easily soloed at 30).

Like it or not, the level requirement for SMN is 30. That means, according to Square Enix, you only have to be level 30 in another job to become a summoner.

This is why "well, if you have all the primes and Fenrir, SMN isn't that bad" is not an adequate answer to the problems SMN has (and, even if you HAVE all the primes and Fenrir, it's still just summon, bloodpact, dismiss, cure).

SMN is not meant to have a level 60 requirement, or it would HAVE a level 60 requirement. It's as simple as that.

/applaud

[Navia]

No need to get defensive :p
I'm sure if you dig around in some older threads you will see me complaining about getting avatars and how all my spirits were a waste of gil etc when I was level 30whm and rank3 .
People have had these issues with the job for a long time, its a huge tease to be able to unlock the job at 30, because you can't effectively play the job without primes.

Everything mentioned in any petition has been hashed out before and ignored by square/enix. I got over it, leveled up, saw alot of Vana'diel, got some more rank and got 3 avatars so far. That is the where my path has taken me so far.
Some level 30s get lucky and find someone to hold their hand through all 6 avatar fights, another SMN I know only used carbuncle for 50 levels - not everyone takes the same path to being a SMN thats for sure.

[Deedlit]

My problem is, even with the original avatars, they're really not very worth all the trouble it is to get them.

Now, since this latest patch, everyone is like "Oh, don't bother leveling SMN till you have Fenrir, you'll have no argument about how SMN is weak if you have him!"

Now, I'm all for him being hard and whatnot. Heck, SMN's don't have to buy any other spells in the game, so we save loads of gil compared to other mage classes. However - Fenrir is useable from level 1. Meaning, being a level 36 SMN now, I'm supposedly gimped cause I don't have a spell that is only level 75 attainable.

Granted, this was the argument even before Fenrir came to be - having to be 55+ to even stand a chance against the avatars, or tag along with a higher level. As far as I can see, Squenix hasn't done much to improve things for this class - NO other job requires you to be level 75 in any other job beforehand.

Oh, and don't give me this BS about how SMN is just eye candy for the level 75 jp's out there. Make the acquisition level be 75 then - what's the point of being able to open it at 30?

[Navia]

I think you misread my post a bit, to clarify:
For me personally, I want *all avatars* now before leveling smn job - I want fenrir by my side while I am trying to do stuff like SMN AF someday,etc.
Thats how I want to play, nowhere did I say SMN without Fenrir is gimp - SMN without garuda/titan are weak tho ^^. Yes some avatars aren't worth the trouble you go through to get them - Ifrit sucks something awful

My statement:
"If Fenrir isn't a hint from Square-Enix that you should get a job like whm to 70 before playing SMN I dont know what is "

Is just my interpretation of how S-E feels about people playing SMN based on you having to beat all Primes twice before getting a shot at fenrir. I'm not thrilled about the hurdles in place to get fenrir either :p
Beating Leviathan again just for the whisper of water gives me a headache thinking about it :sweat:
The fenrir quest in general sends mixed signals to the playerbase I think because the commonly used stratedgy to win is 5 SMN using leviathan on waterday with 1WHM. Thats how 70SMN in my ls got theirs.

So should you spend 70 levels as a SMN with 6 primes minus fenrir and then finally beat him as SMN or use another job and enjoy leveling with him from lowlevel :confused:
If we could only get an answer from S-E themselves ^^

[Deedlit]

Thats how I want to play, nowhere did I say SMN without Fenrir is gimp - SMN without garuda/titan are weak tho ^^.

No no - didn't mean that you said it - I've heard quite a few people say this.

In fact, I completely agree with you. Something is definitely screwed up with this job.

[Kirara]

maybe it's just the way how game is made,
you make it sound like getting to level 30 and complete the quest give you all the right in the world to play smn with it's full ability
summoner is not weak when played at full potential with the right party set up, but before reaching there, if bitching is all you going to do, you are not going to ever get there.