Sub job?

[}PuPPeT^MaSTeR{]

K, people say that BLM really isn't that good of a sub job for SMN right?

I just read a reply on here that I hadn't thought about. WHM really isn't that good of a sub anyway, because if your SMN/WHM your supposed to be a backup healer, but even with Cure III, you won't be curing for too much, in relation to what a real WHM can cure for.

Other than spells like Poisona, how is WHM better than BLM? BLM gives a tad more MP, and isn't that what counts?

So really, other than the MP boost, what is good subjob for SMN?

Until level 70, then you prolly won't even need a sub other than for more MP :D

I personally think SMN/BLM would rock, but anything weak against any element, would be dominated, because you could just nuke it w/ elemental spells strong against it from yourself and your avatar!

[tomfin10]

I'm a LV 40WHM/20BLM (capped sub) right now. When my Party has a Renkei, I try to MB just for a laugh... because when I MB its usually for 5-15 DMG. So its going to be basically the same amount of DMG (maybe 10-20 more points because SMN/BLM have like 7 more points of INT than WHM/BLM)... meanwhile the BLM/WHM does 200 with Fire II. SMN/WHM you'd get so much more... VS SMN/BLM with Warp, no healing magic, and 25ish DMG when you cast...

[Mystic Fury]

however, the smn can use minimal amounts of mana on enfeeblse though (most of the earlier ones are low mana cost). shock can lower mind which in turn lowers resistance, and elemental seal + strongest enfeeble will always go through...it allows the rdms and blms to save their mana. these costs are, for the most part, only one time costs, and are very small, so do not take away from the cost of the summon. i believe the addition of enfeebles, as well as gaining access to drain and aspir (aspir=awesome spell for summoners) and the traits clear mind and conserve mp, serve to be very useful to a smn, maybe even on the lvl of cures.

i mean, would you rather have a full healer, or half a healer with the ability to summon, but rarely uses their summons to save mp for healing?

whereas, a smn/blm would leave their summons out to aid the party, and enfeeble, thereby aiding the current blm or rdm.

[tomfin10]

A SMN/BLM has like 10-50 MP more than a SMN/WHM depending on your LV... so say 30 MP more at LV 30... ok so your summon can stay out less than 30 seconds longer? IMO its not worth it but do what you want. A WHM also gets enfeebles... Dia, Paralyze, Slow. I don't think SMNs get an Enfeebling skill either... only with a sub so your Enfeebling skill would be halved. My party and I were fighting a Beetle and my Enfeebling was like 1 point from max... I tried casting Slow 2 times, and it wouldn't stick, I used Elemental Seal then casted Slow and it resisted again... lol so I casted it like 2 more times and finally got Slow on the enemy. I was determined to get it on since it resisted it so many times . (This was at LV 39ish... the Beetles in the Crawlers' Nest. Also, I'm not sure if they just resist Slow a lot or what...)

[Navia]

Trying to enfeeble with any mage sub as a summoner doesn't work that well. On incredible tough monsters at higher levels, unresistable spells like bio even if you sub blm wont stick for very long. With SMN/WHM and +16mnd gear you can get resists trying to paralyze/slow things or it wears off 1/4 into the fight.

Its worked out much better to let a RDM or WHM enfeeble instead while you pad heal the tank that has regen on until they finish enfeebling. The enfeeble spells stick much longer and are hardly resisted.
I just don't see the value in a SMN/BLM to a party, it just seems a bit of a selfish combination. Sure you can drain and aspir, but when you get a monster link that starts violating the whitemage or bard - you have no way to heal other party members to buy them time to get things under control. Why will you need drain anyways, you will be getting hardly any hate as SMN since you can't heal and your nukes will do weak damage. And then play SMN/BLM all the way to 50 so you can use Aspir finally?

You can't status cure if you sub BLM, which makes SMN/BLM very unattractive from a party standpoint if you are a WHM, its very risky to try and cure status and keep people healed as WHM on really tough fights. I wouldn't want a SMN/BLM in my party when I play WHM/SMN sorry. BLM/WHM does a better job at damaging and support.

There is nothing to stop you from playing SMN/BLM, its a nice combination for gil farming solo but thats about it in my opinion.

[}PuPPeT^MaSTeR{]

Well the way most people are talking here, it's like the summoner shouldn't be summoning at all.

I know that SMN is a job that is highly defined by the sub job they take, however, that sub job should NOT out weigh the main job.

Maybe it's because I haven't played the job yet, but I think if the summoners equipment and played were based solely on the SMN aspect of the job, they would be a better SMN two fold.

Equiping thing like Conjuerer rings, MP +60ish belt, pants, gloves. And lets not forget the Astral Signa, and Vermillion Cloak.

And I'm not much for AF armor.

I do like the thought of Drown, or whichever lowers their MND and then Aspir :D

But anyway, my point is, why are people so skiddish about SMN/WHM. I know they could probably help, but whats the need, when a party should alread have a good healer?

[Kirara]

in between of blm whm rdm smn
there are 7 types of magics
heal holy strengthen weaken elemental dark summon
put summon away since not much information on what it is for is really clear
except heal and strengthen
holy waeken elemental dark will hit the monster as how their skill is compared to the monster's level, at level 70, 120 skilled elemental magic won't hit monster you are trying to level, 120 skilled dark magic won't aspil monster you are trying to level.

i do not know how many times on this forum people have explained why white mage is chosen to be subbed by smn for "max effectiveness".

why there's always people that doesn't listen and think that they can always come up with something better, and even think whm sub is useless...

[Calianeri]

WHM is just a very useful subjob for any mage, because cures, curaga, and the -na spells will work just as well as if a WHM casted them. I've seen it in action many times, and it is always appreciated. For SMNs and BLMs, it's a smart choice, because it will help the entire party in ways that /BLM and /SMN cannot. (/RDM might work OK too, but that's at higher levels from I understand.)

I'm not sure why so many people object to being a backup healer (see the BLM and RDM forums). A single WHM or RDM healing is often not entirely sufficient or efficient. This game gives only 2 mage classes inherent healing abilities (WHM and RDM), but gives 3 other classes (BLM, SMN, BRD) great opportunities to make life easier for the party with a healer subjob.

Well the way most people are talking here, it's like the summoner shouldn't be summoning at all.

They'll definitely be summoning. But they won't be keeping an avatar out most of the time because it's not usually that effective (from what I've seen and read). They summon an avatar, do a special ability, and unsummon. But even if they leave a summon out for a bit, they usually still have the MP and time available to step in with some Cures, etc. Also keep in mind that, according to Sheila's FAQ, the healing special abilities of the avatars are not as MP-efficient as their WHM counterparts.

[Tirrock]

I would like to point out that Clear Mind from BLM does not help SMN. SMN get Clear Mind at 15 (and a seemingly built in version that I noticed at level 14). BLM get it at 15. Clear mind does not stack, as much as we'd like to hope for. I doubt conserve MP would even help. I seriously doubt that it effects blood pact. The only thing you would save MP on would be summoning the avatar/spirit out. Woo, carbuncle costed 3 MP to get out! Woo, Shiva only costed 4! Oh, and let's not forget our buddy, Earth Spirit that costed 5, all thanks to conserve MP. Too bad they still drain MP per 3 seconds...

Yes, you would get MP, which is the ONLY thing I see that would be a benifit over WHM. BLM subbed SMN casting Aspir would probably have difficulty getting decent MP back.

The reason WHM is a good sub is because PCs do not resist Cures. A monster can resist (low damage) subbed BLM spells with ease. If you've ever watched a WHM fight something that casts spells when they're 10 levels above it, it's the same thing.
"The Orcish Mesmerizer casts Water on Jenica."
"Jenica takes 0 points of damage."
Just switch around the names...
"Jenica casts Water on the Orcish Mesmerizer."
"The Orcish Mesmerizer takes 2 points of damage."
That is an example of BLM subbed.

My closing comment is this: How many WAR/BLM do you see out there. When you see one (I've only seen one), do you think "Man, what a wasted space for a subjob."?

[}PuPPeT^MaSTeR{]

I do have a problem with being a backup healer, a good WHM should do their job, I know i've played WHM and I always did my job without anyone's help.

If I play summoners, it's because I wanna Summon, period lol.

Is that so much to ask?