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**Spellbinder** · 01-13-2004, 04:54 AM

I don't mean to come off rude or anything, but it would seem you're only lvl 9. You can't really make any assumptions of any job until after lvl 30 or so. Everything seems wonderful before then, but maybe it's just me.

**Zingy** · 01-13-2004, 04:54 AM

Almost all low lvl jobs are fun, because it is easy. If the future of spam casting cure is "the most fun job to date" then more power to you.

**Deedlit** · 01-13-2004, 05:10 AM

/rolls her eyes at the two posts above.

Here's a plan, Oompa (assuming you can't get a high lvl jp party to help you with summons:

Get SMN to 30. Don't listen to these guys - even as a WHM up to 30 all you do is buff and spam cure2, which you will have access to soon enough. You as a taru have enough mp to bring out Bunckie and still handle cures. Keep your summon skill up to date (I work on it during the few chances of downtime I experience). If you still can't get your avatars at 30, level up WHM to 60, where you can go get them yourself.

I already maxed out Windy fame, and am getting high fame in Jeuno in the meantime (fame in Bastok and Sandoris is still pretty crappy). SO I make a comment that says (using tab) I accepted the Ifrit quest, help would be appreciated. Make sure you have Silent Oil and Prism Powder, and you're set.

**Spellbinder** · 01-13-2004, 05:39 AM

I'm sorry if you took my post negitavely Deedlit, but I'm not trying to be mean, I'm merely pointing out the truth. You don't see a job's true colors until higher levels. Whether you like what you get or not is up to you.

**Calianeri** · 01-13-2004, 07:07 AM

If you still can't get your avatars at 30, level up WHM to 60, where you can go get them yourself.

So you advise this fellow to waste his time and his parties' and be a sub-par summoner for 30 levels, and THEN level to WHM 60 so he can be a real summoner? Great.

It would be GREAT if the Summoner job was good without having to defeat the Primes at around level 60. But sadly that's not the way it works. I don't want to be a summoner if all I can do is Carbuncle and cure. As for leeching off of 5 level 65-70s to fight the Primes for you... I'm not sure I'd call that much of an achievement. I guess I should also apologize for being negative... but there are good reasons to discourage this.

**Deedlit** · 01-13-2004, 07:17 AM

don't want to be a summoner if all I can do is Carbuncle and cure.

Well, that's you. And guess what - with WHM sub, OR WHM main, all you do is cure. Yes, you get raise at 25 - that's the only thing you're giving up - by that point, you should be fighting in Kazham, and can switch to WHM main to raise your party.

So you advise this fellow to waste his time and his parties' and be a sub-par summoner for 30 levels, and THEN level to WHM 60 so he can be a real summoner? Great.

Pfft. He'll be a healer for those levels, and just as good of a healer as a WHM at those levels. Hell, you wanna bring up the Cure 2 argument? I didn't use Cure 2 for a) mp inefficiency and b) agro until my 20's anyway, which is the time a SMN/WHM can use it. Same shit. AND he'll have the advantage of having a TON of mp. As a mithra SMN/WHM, my mp is insane, I never get tapped out, and my LS group does some sick chaining (all NA, btw).

As for leeching off of 5 level 65-70s to fight the Primes for you... I'm not sure I'd call that much of an achievement.

Oh please. I'd like to see what all the NA dragoons/samurais/etc have to say about this. Every NA on my server that is one of those jobs got help from a JP player. Same thing, except you need a few more jp's to help. It's not OUR fault that Squenix made the job horribly difficult to upgrade. Getting the jp group together is enough of an achievement for me, tyvm.

I guess I should also apologize for being negative...

That, and you should apologize for being rude.

**Calianeri** · 01-13-2004, 07:40 AM

**Deedlit** · 01-13-2004, 07:50 AM

/shrug, the advice wasn't meant for you to begin with, especially if you want to act like a child. This is the only viable way I can think of to level summoner given the disadvantage we have without WASTING 90 (yes, NINETY) levels in other jobs, only 30 of which you might actually use as a sub. Not everyone has the time (nor wants to anyway) to level up an unrelated job just to defeat the avatars. It would be a different story if Zilart was released the same way to the NA players as it was to the jp players - as an expansion - but it wasn't. Playing catch up is hard enough, especially for those of us who work.

**Calianeri** · 01-13-2004, 09:30 AM

I don't know why you are acting angry and nasty here. Your post was so defensive and mean that it was actually funny.

Playing as a SMN up until the early teens, even with just Carbuncle and a couple spirits, sounds like a lot of fun. But beyond that, I don't know why anyone would want to play as if they were a half-level WHM with more MP, fewer spells and no Benediction. Especially since it doesn't bring them any closer to their goal of getting all the avatars. That's where I think your advice steers people in the wrong direction.

Summoner has all this hype around it, but people treat it like it's the holy grail. It's just a cool mage job that Square meant for people to play later in their FFXI careers. And what's worse, the hype seems to cause people to play the job too early, and hence play it far below its capabilities. It sounds like you enjoy it anyway, and for you that's great. But I think others won't enjoy it much at all, and I've heard that already from several people on my server who've tried it. And that's in addition to the great advice from the experienced posters on this board.

**Navia** · 01-13-2004, 01:57 PM

I don't know really what to say about this subject myself, whether to wait playing the job entirely or what.

All i know is with my 31WHM in yhoator all i'm doing is:
dia->paralyze->regen->cureII (repeat, try to stay awake)

Duoing with my sam/war friend in valkurm as SMN/WHM it was
-summon carbuncle (while he brings tough/vt monster)
-carbuncle attack, start melee attack myself
-dia->paralyze target
-melee swing
-carbuncle poison nails, then release after a round or two.
-cure 1, melee attack, (repeat)
-get full tp, do rock crusher.

It was a hell of alot more interesting and fun to play and we were getting xp chain of up to 3 before resting briefly.
Almost got 2 levels in less than 3 hours heh.

**Oompa** · 01-13-2004, 10:10 PM

Today I began to solo T's in the canyon and I was doing great. Summon Carbuncle, have him attack, I'll drop Poison, blind, melee myself for a bit, then possibly drop Stone/Water and it was dead...

Very easy(VERY) XP and still loads of fun. Those doubters out there either don't know what they're doing or don't appreicate the benifits of the job for what they are. They look at one or two bad stats and focus in so hard the rest is a blur to them.

Carbuncle was hitting for 20~ damage, I was hitting for 15~, and my nukes went off for 30~. There's nothing wrong with that picture, NOTHING!

I don't even NEED cure. Carbuncle takes most the aggro away from me except when I have to chain nuke for some reason. It's the perfect job in my opinion. Summon something to take hits and make hits for you and do a special move now and then is just awesome. If I get in trouble I can have him heal me. If he dies, so what, I'll just summon him again and keep going. I don't have to worry about anything as long as he's there....

**Deedlit** · 01-14-2004, 05:08 AM

Aha, and this is where you completely missed my point:

Playing as a SMN up until the early teens, even with just Carbuncle and a couple spirits, sounds like a lot of fun. But beyond that, I don't know why anyone would want to play as if they were a half-level WHM with more MP, fewer spells and no Benediction.

Read the above two posts, and you'll see that 1) you aren't a half level-WHM in terms of spells - seriously, you have all the spells that you and your party will need by the time you start grouping (cure 1, then soon enough cure 2), all your debuffs, and I don't know about you, but I rarely need Benediction - that's the try-and-save-PT-b/c-of-screwup spell - just don't screw up

I got a bit frustrated because everyone on this board seems to like only cookie cutter characters, and automatically see SMN as a weak WHM, leeching off the party (as you so aptly claimed yourself). It's not. It's a great soloer in the early levels, and when you PT, its a WHM, that has sick MP, and can also help damage the mob (Bunckie can issue the same beating to a mob that a PLD can, not a crazy amount, but enough to earn his keep).

**Navia** · 01-14-2004, 12:28 PM

One thing I noticed since the change to astral flow (3minute duration, avatar costs no mp to maintain) is that a summon is extremely useful for holding a linked mob at bay while you continue to use your mp pool for healing.
In palsborough last night I was duoing with my sam/war friend killing tough/vt quadavs and he got an extra copper quadav >_<.
Pulled out carbuncle and had him tank the extra one, used astral flow, drank some juice and continued enfeebling the other one my friend was killing along with healing him.
I use juice when I trigger astral flow so I can keep carbuncle out *and* regain mp for 1 or 2 more shots of searing light - it totally kicks butt

Leveled up twice last night too, not bad for a 'gimp summoner' i think :sweat:
I'm going as far as 25(which is when other avatars like garuda get blink) and go back to leveling as whm/smn.

**albert lee** · 01-17-2004, 09:27 AM

start using cure3/4 more when you hit lvl 45- on

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Being a summoner isn' that bad!

Being a summoner isn' that bad!

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