Libra... What is it?!

[Truece]

I know this much:

Libra (SCH Lv.76 Ability Delay: 1 min.)
Examines the target's enmity level.

Can someone explain to me what this JA really does and how it works?

[Jarre]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

From wiki....

Job Ability
Examines the target's enmity level.
Obtained: Scholar Level 76
Recast Time: 1:00 edit

Notes/Description
Examines the target's enmity level.
Displays enmity values of party members as percentages in the chat window.
Information will be displayed to all members in the party.
Percentages are based off of the current player on top of the enmity list, which is considered 100%

[Feba]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

Percentages are based off of the current player on top of the enmity list, which is considered 100%

Because it would be too much for us to be given the units players already use.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

Because it would be too much for us to be given the units players already use.

Yeah, let's make the system for spreadsheet nerds, their system of inflated enmity values and technobabble.

I'm sure that would go really well, why steamline the data in chatlog when we can make it an even bigger clusterfuck?

[cidbahamut]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

Yeah, let's make the system for spreadsheet nerds, their system of inflated enmity values and technobabble.

I'm sure that would go really well, why steamline the data in chatlog when we can make it an even bigger clusterfuck?

I'm presuming you are referring to the clutter of listing both Volatile Enmity and Cumulative Enmity, to which I would say why not just go with Total Enmity. But then, we really have no idea if they're even going on that now so it's all a big crap shoot and won't matter because no one is going to bother using the spell anyway.

I just don't see what this spell was supposed to accomplish.

[Takelli]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

I just don't see what this spell was supposed to accomplish.

Maybe there will be long drawn out fights at the lvl 90 cap that will have monsters that reset enmity, or abilities that cause player enmity to switch from person to person every so often. If that where the case, I could see it being useful to see how much stuff the tank needs to do before getting hate back.

[Truece]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

Could be slightly useful for long-casting, single-target spells/JAs that mobs use, I guess.

Evil bad starts casting Burst V.
SCH: Leroy, you better get shadows up or GTFO!
Leroy runs away!

Does such a situation even occur in the game as we know it?

What about uses against HNMs? (keep in mind that I have zero HNM experience) Can this be used to determine who can get behind Fafnir w/o triggering a Spike Flail, or other such TP moves?

[Feba]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

Yeah, let's make the system for spreadsheet nerds, their system of inflated enmity values and technobabble.

And yet you complain that SE is dumbing down the game too much.

Which is it?

[MrMageo]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

It is not very useful. Want to know who has hate, the guy getting hit in the face, want to know who is likely to pull hate, the SAM,RNG,BLM going crazy with WS's and Nukes.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

And yet you complain that SE is dumbing down the game too much.

Which is it?

You seem to think this is the same thing. Its not.

The "dumbing down" I complain about is not a dumbing down of game design, but retrofitting parts of the game for people who are socially inept and need handouts. The CoP changes are made for people that had no business playing FFXI to start with, but stupidly kept on investing in it anyway, complaining that they had to work with other people in a co-operative multiplayer game.

Just go play a single player gamer if you're so awesome and everyone else is a burden to you. I don't care if you're an FFXI player or a WoW player, these kinds of people exist in WoW, too, bemoaning the fact no one helps them when all they ever do is shout in a city for help.

People can sense weakness, you know. When you basically shout "lead me" all the time, they know the one thing they're not getting is someone with a plan. People with plans use forums, linkshells, Skype/ventrillo and their friends lists. They don't shout for hours on end, at worst they have 4 or 5 people when they start shouting.

And what does any of that have to do with game design? Very little. People got shit done because they had the people skills. SE can't give you that. They can say they made something more "accessible" but we know what it really means - they know these subscribers don't belong, but they don't want to turn them away.

SE also can't fix stupid. All these people that got their asses stuck on CoPs that have been "liberated" will just stuck in some other bottleneck for the same reasons as CoP.

As for Libra:

Cramming the chat log with even more information because of a spell wasn't a good idea to start with. The way this was implemented was bad enough - your solution is more chat spam and incomprehensible chat spam at that.

I might be kind of a spread sheet nerd, but I am no math nerd and EXP PTs, the best way to manage hate in a big fight is to let the tank tank and not cut loose with abilities known to draw enmity. I need math for this?

I think not.

In a non-burn context, you only use big enmity-creating moves if you know for certain you can bring that fight to a decisive end. Do RNGS, MNKs, WARs and BLM learn where that is? Totally. Are we crunching math values in real time to do this?

No, we're looking at HP bar fractions at best.

Enmity control has a lot more to do with common sense and basic math than it does higher math and catering to spreadsheet nerds. I appreciate what the spreadsheet nerds do, but if there's a more comprehensible, non-spam way of communicating it, then that's the method I would prefer.

I think Libra isn't that great to start with, but let's not make it more spammy than it already is..

[Armando]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

I might be kind of a spread sheet nerd, but I am no math nerd and EXP PTs, the best way to manage hate in a big fight is to let the tank tank and not cut loose with abilities known to draw enmity. I need math for this?

I think not.

Because 100% could mean the tank has 1000 enmity. Or 2000. Or 10000. It could be anything.

What the kind of spreadsheet math are you talking about anyways? Enmity values are...simple numbers. Reporting "3000 enmity" isn't mindblowing.

Gut feeling only goes so far. I've seen retards that think popping Berserk + Defender is going to get them some appreciable amount of hate. I even remember people saying back in the day that Boost was 1/3 of a Provoke. And DRKs that can't seem to understand that Last Resort is 72% of a Provoke's worth of hate, and that's not something worth popping on a high damage WS just for a measily Attack boost when you're not gonna kill the mob.

I thought most mages ran with chat filters anyways.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

Because 100% could mean the tank has 1000 enmity. Or 2000. Or 10000. It could be anything.

What the kind of spreadsheet math are you talking about anyways? Enmity values are...simple numbers. Reporting "3000 enmity" isn't mindblowing.

They're all grossly inflated numbers with abbreviations that poorly define the metagame elements they're trying to illustrate. And yet, it doesn't add anything that common sense wouldn't already have told you years ago about how this game functions.

The people that cared about that sort of thing are long gone for the most part with FFXI, so what's the use of it in a game that's becoming more about small groups, in which common sense will get the job done?

A good WAR knows not to blow Warcry in a fight where we need a PLD to tank, and by the same token, in an EXP party, he knows exactly when he should use it to bring a fight to a decisive end. This comes from observation and experience, not number-crunching. By and large, we do the numbers well before we ever get into a fight, that's just the gear and macro side of the game. And writing those macros is not the most fun part, either.

Stupid people ar just going to be stupid people, adding BG-worthy endgame math to the table isn't going to change what stupid people do. If your DRK is referencing Papa Roach in his macros, that's pretty much a sign of what you're not getting someone that would employ math or common sense. There are people who are just going to be meatheads and nothing is going to change them.

[Armando]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

How are they "grossly inflated?" And what does it matter what abbreviations players use? SE can make Scan report any message; SE determines what the official terms would be.

This comes from observation and experience, not number-crunching.

Knowing the numbers cuts down on the amount of observation needed and also removes any uncertainty.

There are people who are just going to be meatheads and nothing is going to change them.

Right, so let's not give people with brains any hints because dumb people won't understand.

[Lmnop]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

I like the % system. Straight numbers would make this too WoW with their aggro watch plug-in deals. I like how FFXI is very strongly intuition-based enmity and Libra simply gives check-ups. Also, since the info is displayed to everyone, the Thief gets a better idea of whose hate to screw with.

[MrMageo]

Re: Libra... What is it?!

People can sense weakness, you know. When you basically shout "lead me" all the time, they know the one thing they're not getting is someone with a plan. People with plans use forums, linkshells, Skype/ventrillo and their friends lists. They don't shout for hours on end, at worst they have 4 or 5 people when they start shouting.

thank

Because 100% could mean the tank has 1000 enmity. Or 2000. Or 10000. It could be anything.

thank

They're all grossly inflated numbers with abbreviations that poorly define the metagame elements they're trying to illustrate. And yet, it doesn't add anything that common sense wouldn't already have told you years ago about how this game functions.

unthank

knowing solid values > oh well I was this happen before when I did this. SE has clearly ninja buffed SC + MB and when (it happens a lot) DD's SC and MB that is about 4.5K worth of CE over 3 ppl that never goes away. It will be nice to know for big hitters if they should SC (because all the big hitters are /sam and can self SC, all the BLM's are /RDM and convert to keep up) people are liable to get fucked up. But as a useful ability outside of the initial 3 minutes of a fight is useless.

How are they "grossly inflated?" And what does it matter what abbreviations players use? SE can make Scan report any message; SE determines what the official terms would be.
Quote:
This comes from observation and experience, not number-crunching.
Knowing the numbers cuts down on the amount of observation needed and also removes any uncertainty.
Quote:
There are people who are just going to be meatheads and nothing is going to change them.
Right, so let's not give people with brains any hints because dumb people won't understand.

thank all