What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Now that the Group 1s have been out for a while and how they're different from BLM and RDM Group 1s, I think I have a decent idea of what SE has in store for Group 2.

We have the merits for Sublimation, Modus Veritas, Helix and Grimorie Recast. This leaves us with strategems untouched.

But I don't really think we need new strategems beyond what's been given. Just look at how powerful each of them are, they're so insane SE is reluctant to give us access to Cure Potency, more MAB and other gear of that nature.

What they don't seem reluctant on giving us is more Conserve MP or currently existing White and Black Magic.

Addendum: White and Addendum: Black were two major additions to the job and I think Group 2s should focus on adding to those two specifically. Each merit would grant us a new spell, first one weak, the last one strong. I'd like to see more on the Enfeebling and Divine end of things, personally. I don't think we need anything that is second tier, though.

Flash, Stun, a Manifestation-compatible Ice Spikes and things of that nature would be nice to have and expand our utility while not taking too much away in the specialties of other jobs. I don't think we need better cures or nukes at this point, we're more than competitive in that regard, considering how obscene Parsimony/Penury, Accession and Rapture/Ebullience already are.

As for traits, I think more merits for Conserve MP would be a plus. Lowering the charge time for Strategems would also be an option, though not by much. Maybe ten or fifteen seconds at most. We certainly don't need more charges, four is plenty.

Anyway, I think while these are just guesses, they're probably a tad more realistic than what's been said previously on this forum.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I'd like to see some more unique SCH spells personally. Also, I think it's safe to say SE will not be giving SCH a merit trait that
increases stratagems, as that would just be completely over powering.

I've said this before in previous posts but I believe the most likely scenario is 1 new stratagem for each art and possible a few new spells for each addendum.

The most plausible spells for Addendum White would likely be Haste and Holy, since neither of those can be gained with a sub job and well quite frankly, giving Refresh to SCH would be obscene and RDM's would commit mass suicide.

Giving SCH haste seems very likely, despite how insanely good this will make it for merits (move over RDM) since SCH can already copy all of SMN's other AoE's and since this one will require addendum white to be up, it's semi-balanced.

As for Addendum:Black, I can't think of a damned thing. Stun and Gravity would *really* be nice, allowing SCH to /BLM and keep Gravity. However, both these spells can be gained via sub job and I doubt we're going to see more treat similar to na spells and addendum:white.

It'd be nice to see some more Grimoire Traits too. Perhaps one to further reduce MP cost of spells (this would actually be way better than meriting conserve MP IMO since it's a flat, constant reduction) and another for casting/recast timers.

[ruffrydasean]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I'm kinda slow on the uptake @.@;.. what do you mean by Group 1 and Group 2?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Merit categories.

Meritting is what players do when we hit 75 and have no further room to grow our characters. Instead of gaining EXP, we begin to earn limit points, which can be applied to customize a character and its jobs.

Group 1 and 2 merits are job-specific and at this time, SCH and DNC Group 2 have not yet been added. In the September Update, SCH and DNC Group 1 merits were added.

There are also categories that are not job-specific and can be applied to your character universally. For example, you can merit HP and get 10HP more at 75. If you were to level a new job, that 10 HP would appear at level 10.

Job-specific merits, however, do not cross over into other jobs.

---------------

Malacite, there's no real reason to keep Stun as a subjob exclusive in the context of SCH. BLM has it, DRK, RDM whores it out like a cheap trick and so does BLU.

There's also no other worthwhile reason to level DRK for sub save for Stun, nor is there a worthwhile reason to level PLD save for Flash. Maybe its just me, but I've always hated one-spell subs.

So while I agree that Addendums should mostly see upgrades that we can't get from a subjob, I think Stun and Flash should be an exception. We don't have any reason to use Divine magic and we couldn't really do anything advantageous with Holy except go lolHoly like PLD and WHM already do, so Flash is a natural choice, but any new divide magic SE were to create should go directly to WHM or PLD.

I've already detailed Stun - its everywhere and an essential part of crowd control. It also gets people away from simply looking at us as healers at endgame and more a part of mob control. Right now, I've seen quite a few SCHs play nothing more than a glorified AoE buffer and Healer at endgame events and while it is one of our strengths, it shouldn't be the only one. Granted those SCHs are probably just in poor, unimaginative endgame shells like so many other jobs, still, we can be of WAY more use than that.

[Ziero]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Wait, you honestly think SE will give Sch pre-existing spells for their group 2 merits?

Spells that other jobs get at full potency from just leveling up?

Group 2s are spells, abilities and traits that are completely unique and customized to each job.

Me, I'd expect a trait that allows use of strategms with a chance to not use up a charge, a trait that somehow enhances the weather buffs, and either a new JA per grimoire or two new, unique, job specific spells.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

RDM's would commit mass murder

Fixed.

I would hope that they DON'T give SCH spells that already exist, seriously. You guys are great (if you're played well, that is) but stop stepping on our toes even more. All three of my jobs are replaceable by SCH these days (yes, even my RDM, in things like meripo, it still counts), especially my gimpy unmerited BLM. XD

I would be very upset as a WHM - hell, as a RDM too - if they got Haste, because, well, there goes another reason I'm useful in a party. I'd be very upset as a RDM if they got Gravity or Refresh, because ... well duh. Gravity is not so important as Refresh. And it makes zero sense to give SCH Refresh because of Sublimation, not only that, Hi2u Accession + Refresh, big fat "fuck you" to RDMs. Yeah, that would piss me off. The -na thing already pisses me off, why do SCH get to "DV" more than me?

I can't say I know enough about SCH to speculate on what the Group 2's should be. BUT. From what I've seen, there's a pattern to merits. Group 1 is enhancing that which you already have (such as Macc, Potency, Recast timers), and Group 2 gives you new stuff to play with. (Hi Devotion, Hi Slow 2, Hi Freeze 2, etc.) I think it's either going to be new spells, like Tier 2 Helixes perhaps? Or new job abilities. The key here is something new. Not really sure what they could add or what SCH lacks that new JAs could make up for, however. It could go either way, I'm leaning toward spells though since SCH doesn't seem to be lacking in the JA department.

I really hope that SE doesn't just keep giving SCH things that came from other jobs. That will make me a VERY sad mage indeed. You're already stepping on my toes as a WHM. They're starting to do the same on RDM, and they're kind of an easy way to replace a BLM. I'm starting to think SCH is a very strong job - almost too strong. There's almost too many roles a SCH can fill. I've felt this way for a while, I hope SE realizes this and finds a way to put SCH into its own niche instead of continuing to step on the toes of other mages. Which I agree, is inevitable, but really, give them something new, don't recycle other mage's stuff and give it to SCH.

[Ziero]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I think it's either going to be new spells, like Tier 2 Helixes perhaps?

...I didn't even think of that. Though with Sch I doubt it will be that easy. SE wanted them to play differently then other mages, hence the mass amount of JAs. I could easily see SE adding 1-2 more. But then again, Helix IIs would be a very simple way to go.

[Malacite]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

All three of my jobs are replaceable by SCH these days (yes, even my RDM, in things like meripo, it still counts), especially my gimpy unmerited BLM. XD

I actually see this as a good thing in some respects, as it frees up RDM to do other things, like oh say enfeeble. SE needs to step up to the plate and fix EXP for "classic" parties. I'm thinking 400-500 base EXP for high IT mobs that require SC + MB to kill like we used to do would make it fairly comparable to TP burns.

One style of EXP shouldn't be strictly better than other. The more ways we have to EXP the less crowding there is and people sitting on their asses bored for hours.


Sorry for the derail. I agree BBQ that Flash and Stun would be really nice and are quite likely, but more than anything I'd like to see SCH get Haste.

[Nataka]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Please no haste! I get so frakin' scared of haste with melees, it's why I cant play red mage and keep quitting WHM: Haste really seems to bring out the worst in people, as evne if it's only been gone for a second people are like "OMG WHY DONT I HAVE HASTE GIVE IT TO ME NO ID ONT CARE THAT YOU'RE HEALING THAT OTHER GUY." Same goes for Refreesh too, really, but for some reason Haste seems to be worse.

:/

I do have to agree though, that no matter what direction they go with merit group 2, I think scholars and red mages complement each other rather well. With a Scholar, Red Mages are able to focus on enhancing and debuffing, and Scholars are able to focus on Healing and occasionally nuking too for extra damage. Same goes for WHM really, I dunno why people feel like we have to have Super-Mages that can do everything..

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I dunno why people feel like we have to have Super-Mages that can do everything..

Because there's only room for one mage in TP burn parties in order to get chain 6253. Not saying it's good, but that's how it is. I've come to embrace it, myself, as quick merits > insanely slow merits.

[Ziero]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Even if SE did up the base exp gained from IT mobs and gave bonuses to SC+MB, it would have to be a fairly massive amount to compete with TP burns. Due to their sheer accessibility and simplicity, combined with low risk/high rewards, ToAU burns are hard to compete against.

And again, I doubt SE will be adding old spells for Schs group 2 merits. As Aksannyi said, group 2s are for giving jobs new, and unique, things to play with. Just giving a class older spells, especially things that they can already get from subs, is rather useless and a borderline ridiculous notion.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I think I'd be safe in saying that a lot of WHM and RDM would throw a fit if SCH got Haste. They do SO MUCH already, it's like SE sucks SCH's dick, they were kinda "lol" at first and now they're brilliant, almost too brilliant. I'm not lying when I say that SCH is borderline broken. If SE doesn't tread carefully they could put a lot of mages out of a job.

[Nataka]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

I think I'd be safe in saying that a lot of WHM and RDM would throw a fit if SCH got Haste. They do SO MUCH already, it's like SE sucks SCH's dick, they were kinda "lol" at first and now they're brilliant, almost too brilliant. I'm not lying when I say that SCH is borderline broken. If SE doesn't tread carefully they could put a lot of mages out of a job.

Yeah I mean Hastega is just out of the question, as is Refreshga. Stoneskinga was okay because, let's face it, that isnt going to make or break an encounter. But Hastega and Refreshga just makes things a little too simple for a party, and like you said puts RDM and WHM out of a job. It'd be hard to argue that normal Refresh and Haste would still be better than the -ga versions, since scholar's AOE Strat does not lower the power of the spell at all.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Hastega is just out of the question,

Somewhere a Summoner with their Evoker's Ring is crying.

Also, I'll cry myself if Scholar gets any pre-existing spells for their Merits (for all parties involved, in fact), or a tailor-built sidegrade of one, for that matter (BBQ's "Manifestation-compatible Ice Spikes" . . . no, just, no).

[Nataka]

Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

Somewhere a Summoner with their Evoker's Ring is crying.

Also, I'll cry myself if Scholar gets any pre-existing spells for their Merits (for all parties involved, in fact), or a tailor-built sidegrade of one, for that matter (BBQ's "Manifestation-compatible Ice Spikes" . . . no, just, no).

I meant only for scholars. It's not quiet as easy for a summoner to cast Hastega since pets dont really position themselves perfectly all the time. They also cant match the healing potentiial of a red mage and certainly not a white mage.