Subs for Sch in exp parties?

[Vyuru]

There was some pretty good info in the Rounding out SCH subs thread, but I wanted to take another look at /blu in particular, and more, when to use X sub.

/blu sounds interesting, on paper though. I am interested in getting even a weak form of Stoneskin early on that lets me use Sublimation while resting. Much later, you gain access to two Blu healing spells, Healing Breeze and Wild Carrot. The interesting aspect of these spells is that you should have access to them under both Light/Dark arts, while they gain a nice boost in either one due to the healing skill, the biggest boost during Light Arts of course. Also gains access to auto regen earlier than /whm, making Stoneskin last longer, and various +stats due to set spells. I think this could be interesting as a main healing sub, it could be nice to have access to other healing spells such as Wild Carrot even though Sch gets up to Cure IV. Healing Breeze may or may not be a decent substitute for the Curaga line of spells, I could be wrong.

I don't know if it's worth it to give up on the Curaga spells, and Divine Seal/Veil+status cures. The only really nasty status mob that I can think of that people exp off of are Imps, and then they spam Poisonga so much, a 10 minute timer is nice, but maybe it's not that worthwhile. So on a /whm vs /blu basis, I'm undecided. I'd be more inclined towards /whm for LS events and stuff, dunno about normal exp parties. My thought is that /whm is better suited for status healing in events where you don't have 3+ mobs slept and waiting to be killed.

So yeah, beyond Divine Seal and Curagas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference between a Sch/whatever main healing and Sch/whm. You do get teleport spells, but those aren't really used to reach exp areas at 70+.

Also, question on Sch nuking. It seems that a majority of the low level parties that I pass by are mainly one hander weapons, with either /nin or mnks. Given that, would it be better for a Sch to toss on an Enspell of the appropriate element to the party, or toss out a nuke? More of a question of, if invited for DD purposes, do I want /rdm or /blm? I suspect that this depends on the party setup.

[Karinya]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

I don't think auto-regen will make your stoneskin last longer. My experience with combining them is that regen effects always go to your real HP (and are wasted if you're at full), while if you have a DoT effect, it ticks away on your stoneskin. The only time regen and DoTs appear to offset is if both are affecting your actual HP on the same tick.

Enspells are cheap, even accessioned, and last a couple minutes. You can pretty easily combine them with whatever other spells you're using (subject to the limit on stratagem charges). There's no reason to look at enspells and nukes as an either/or situation IMO, especially if you're not main healer. (Except if you want to keep Addendum:Black open without spending charges on it every time you change Arts - but that doesn't affect nuking until 70+.) If you *are* main healer, enspells are white and won't force you to drop Addendum:White if you're using it, so the only real consideration is the stratagem charge you spend on accession+enspell instead of accession+regen2 or penury+curaga or something like that. Obviously this will depend on the camp, party setup, etc.

/blu does look interesting, but I suspect it would turn out inferior to subs that give you more white or black magic that you can use with full-leveled skills, arts, and stratagems. Light Arts alone makes curaga cheaper than healing breeze.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

I wouldn't use /BLU long term only because you have nothing to draw from the subjob as a SCH main aside from some neat traits and stat boots. It might be nice for negating some damage taken from Sublimation via Metallic Body and a cheap cure from Wild Carrot is nice, but you'd also be getting MAB from /BLU a bit later than you would /BLM or /RDM. SCH is just better played with the subjobs that compliment it directly.

I bounced from /WHM to /BLM as the situation called for it pre-68. Most of pre-50 was /BLM because (at least on Odin) we were invited to do BLM work. After 55 kicked in I was mostly invited as a main or support healer and since you get Stoneskin in the 50s on /WHM I found that to be an effective means of minimizing curing since /NIN is so prevalant these days.

There were levels I toyed with /RDM, but it really doesn't come into its own til 68 where you have Phalanx, Stonskin, Blink and Gravity all under one sub. Phalanx/Stoneskin is just unreal in how effective it is and then there's /RDM's effectiveness for solo and manaburn.

After 68, there's no real reason to sub anything other than /RDM unless you want to teleport or warp somewhere. I suppose if you were in a situation where a cheap curaga was helpful, that might be helpful, but there's nothing /WHM offers that SCH doesn't for AoE cures aside from Divine Seal and Auto-Regen.

[Malacite]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

RDM sub is fine from 40+ given you don't have a dire need for blink. The only reason I'd sub WHM in EXP would be to save you from having to use Addendum: White, but since using that gives you spells that you'd already got from /WHM a lot sooner, it's a toss up.

Generally speaking RDM seems to be the dominant sub, with BLM winning out in the early levels for the MAB and @40+ WHM for AoE Blink and Stoneskin.

[Karinya]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

Can you get enough stratagem charges to maintain accession phalanx and still renew accession stoneskin often enough to be useful? It *is* a nifty combo, but since you don't get both abilities naturally AOEd the way a SMN does, I have to admit to being a bit dubious of a SCH's ability to sustain it in actual combat, especially before 70 (even if you aren't using any charges for anything else, and even if casting times aren't an issue).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

Before 70, you'd just do Stoneskin and that's from /WHM before 68. At 70+ with four charges in constant battles, I've found the amount of strategems available to be adequate. Especially so if people are watching their shadows and/or hate really well.

You're still going to opt for Stoneskin more often than Phalanx, though, and how effective the combo is all depends on the competence of your allies. If you have a zerging melee ripping hate at every opportunity or not counting shadows they're going to be a MP sponge no matter what.

[Malacite]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

The last time I merited with a SCH he was keeping up SS & Phalanx just fine.

Personally I prefer Enblizzard though, especially on a PT of all/mostly DW

[Firewind]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

The only annoying thing about /BLM is being asked to sub it, turning up in all of your nuking gear and nuking food then being asked to main heal when you get to the camp. Especially when there is a RDM in the party who can main heal a heck of a lot better than SCH in the 30's (I use SCH as a sub for WHM. taking SCH to 75 after WHM)

[Malacite]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

Especially when there is a RDM in the party who can main heal a heck of a lot better than SCH in the 30's (I use SCH as a sub for WHM. taking SCH to 75 after WHM)

Actually, I would still say SCH has the edge here, especially if you are /WHM.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Subs for Sch in exp parties?

SCH/BLM is not likely a better choice to be the main healer in that scenario than the RDM, since the benefit SCH derives from /BLM is specifically in pursuing a role which is at odds with keeping up with main healing duty, particularly as needing Addendum: White will keep you locked into Light Arts most of the time even if the party doesn't need a lot of healing.

Now if the RDM is /BLM, then you've got a poor party planning issue.