+Skill or MAB/INT?

[WishMaster3K]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

In addition to MP Efficiency ratio to Damage, Helix's also benefit from casting time.

Unless you're stacking it with a JA, or have superior timing, a T4 might get you popped in the back of the head untimely.

I know that with movement speed gear, this is a non-existant problem for exp, but a lot of NMs have bonuses to their movement, and a Gravity / Stoneskin wear at the wrong time = Death. ; ;

And Helixes are SCH Specific, so I feel they have merit in usability. How many Helixes can be on at a certain time? Because they can do above the damage of a T3 for less than the MP cost...

[Malacite]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

I'm fairly certain you can only have 1 helix active on a mob (due to the insane DoT they do)

[MrMageo]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

Just to expand on your INT vs MAB vs Skill trouble some more I have acctually been running some tests with my 75 RDM, my brothers 75 BLM and a friends 75 SCH(as he is in the same situation you seem to be in).

So far from the testing we have done (puddings and wamoura) I have found for myself as a RDM with such low elemental skill (just recently bumped it to 283 and I dont know if can go much higher). I find that INT helps alot more on the higher level enemies (in comparison to skill level). Al though it is hard to determine if it is acctually the INT carrying the additional accuracy (which I beleive is the case), and the fact it hasnt been tested conclusivley, but the assumption is roughly 2 INT= .9 accuracy when your skill is >200.

Now in comparision to the MAB gear, I noticed while I did manage several nukes at full damage, they were moderatley higher, then the ones I hit full with an INT set up. However the drawback was only several of the ones I casted hit for full damage, my accuracy dropped greatly when focusing on MAB instead of INT.

Now the SCH we were with found the same trouble, he was getting resisted in MAB gear even with a 281 skill (dark arts+torque+earring). Albeit when he did hit unresisted he was pushing 1.2-1.3K nukes with MAB gear he found he was more consistently hitting 1K+ nukes in a full INT spread .

Now in comparison to the BLM who was able to go all out in MAB/INT gear and not focus to hard on skill. But we know how BLM can maximize and not sch.

If im not mistaken SCH can only get MAB 2 from subbing BLM(mine is only 37 atm so im not overly sure) but thats low building block (which is why I dont overly MAB myself on RDM). If you figure optimal setup may net you +20 MAB that only puts you at a 44% increase. So a nuke with a base of 540 is only getting bumped to 776, where as if you dropped on +40-50 INT gear to increase the DIF

your looking at lets say for arguments sake 50% of available INT (should be high 70's for a taru mage/blm +50 = 120 so 60 damage aprox)

540+60*1.24= 744 a loss of about 30 damage, however if INT does infact affect accuracy you are gaining
50/2*.90= 22.5
22.5 points of ACC provided this is the correct formula and function (which I beleive is pretty close judging from nuking on my rdm.)

Even still if you do wear some higher +INT gear and some other MAB gear that dosent take up a high +INT slot (such as moldy earring) you can essentially be looking at with just that adjustment

744*1.05= 781 so your beating your damage from an MAB setup, with +50INT and 1 additional source of MAB.

I think in the case of nonBLM jobs INT is a much better focus simply because we start back from a BLM in terms of damage already.

32% boost from MAB4 vs 24% from MAB2.

Personally I would go with a pure INT+ build, even though their is no hard evidence of it providing MACC it will provide you with an equal damage floor (not to mention increase potency on all black magic spells something MAB does not do.)
Depending on the INT = MACC thing you may be able to survive on merits and INT to successfully land your spells. INT>MAB if not a blm other jbs just dont have the initial power.

[Mog]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

Personally I would go with a pure INT+ build, even though their is no hard does not do.

Good god, this is flawed in every sense of the word. Don't spread this to other black mages/scholars <.>. You do not want purely intelligence. If you have intelligence....and nothing but intelligence, you're missing out on the potential that extra MaB can give you.

It all depends on what you're fighting, but for puddings, you want to stack intelligence and MaB, so you get the benefit of the additional damage from the base damage the int gives.

For higher end mobs, stick int and elemental skill and less on MaB. Int and skill both ensure that you will stick nukes that won't get resisted.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

MrMageo, I don't know if you've ever noticed, but when people ask questions on these forums, they're generally not interested in hearing your answers.

Malacite, from what I've read elsewhere, Helixes do stack. They're recognized by the system as Elemental Magic (i.e. nukes) so there is no reason for them to cancel out each other. One SCH can cast Pyrohelix and I could cast Cryohelix and the effects would still stack.

I don't have a problem with the Helix spells, its just that like any other DoT spell out there, you have to be in a situation that justifies it. If its a mob that requires some degree of sleep control, its not an option. If the situation doesn't call for sleep control, helix away.

[MrMageo]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

Ya w/e BBQ you build your SCH how you want, I suppose you can run it around with your ranger that doesn't pull, your COR who refuses to use corsair roll, and your bard who doesn't offer up madrigal.

You asked about gear choices I offered my knolwedge of casting nukes with a crappy elemental skill (283 which is higher than yours), and a crappy MAB skill (which is also higher than yours unless your /BLM @24%) From the looks of it were working from pretty well the same location except you got bigger spells. Which really hurt when they miss and only hit for <200.

The INT will also help you with Helix spells

((YourINT -1) - EnemyINT) + 25 * Weather Bonus * Magic Attack Bonus) -is the suspect formula as per wiki.

you have 120 int vs a mob with 70 (SCH/BLM)

(120-1)-70)+25*1.10*1.24 = 83.1

against a set up of +20 MAB @ 100INT

100-1-70+25*1.10*1.44= 85.5

again virtually the exact same, now if INT does infact increase accuracy like I said in my last post it is the clincher for RDM and SCH to use, simply due to our lack of MAB if you took the same spell assuming a blm could cast helix

100-1-70+25*1.10*1.52= 90

another 5 point difference for 8 MAB provided BLM could use it, however it can't that is just simply to show you since you seem oblivious to the fact MAB is virtually Identical to INT in terms of damage for a SCH or RDM.

[Callisto]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

I distinctly remember the inital SCH findings all saying the Helixes(Helices?) do not stack, although I suppose it would be really easy to test if you had a second SCH to spend a few seconds with, you cast yours, they cast theirs, if you both get the wearing off message then it does, if only they do it doesn't. I don't suppose you have another SCH friend that you could do a quick test with?

Edit: Who the hell uses SCH/BLM?

[Malacite]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

o. O Really? The initial testing on it said otherwise. Now adimittedly my SCH is only 37 but I distinctly recall seeing on a number of threads that only 1 can be placed on a mob...

Lebross Cavern just got bent over...

[Taskmage]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

The INT will also help you with Helix spells

((YourINT -1) - EnemyINT) + 25 * Weather Bonus * Magic Attack Bonus) -is the suspect formula as per wiki.

you have 120 int vs a mob with 70 (SCH/BLM)

(120-1)-70)+25*1.10*1.24 = 83.1

against a set up of +20 MAB @ 100INT

100-1-70+25*1.10*1.44= 85.5

again virtually the exact same, now if INT does infact increase accuracy like I said in my last post it is the clincher for RDM and SCH to use, simply due to our lack of MAB if you took the same spell assuming a blm could cast helix

100-1-70+25*1.10*1.52= 90

another 5 point difference for 8 MAB provided BLM could use it, however it can't that is just simply to show you since you seem oblivious to the fact MAB is virtually Identical to INT in terms of damage for a SCH or RDM.

This math is all wrong because the parenthesis are in the wrong place. You're applying MAB and weather bonuses only to the base damage of the spell and then adding the INT difference to that value instead of incorporating dINT into the D value for the spell. At any rate it's already been established that INT is way better for helixes (helices or w/e) than MAB but bbq is primarily interested in improving Tier IVs.

I prioritize nuking gear like this: skill > mab > int. My philosophy is that any mob worth nuking is going to be a decently high level and likely to resist, which I want to reduce as much as possible. Skill is the best at that. After that obviously I want to do more damage, which mab is better at followed by int, so I fill as many slots as I can with mab and fill in anything else with int.

[Callisto]

Re: +Skill or MAB/INT?

Well RDM is slightly different than SCH there too, aside from a few exceptions, most of your bigtime INT slots are not also bigtime MAB slots, pretty much just Houppelande vs. Gomlek, and in that case they're practically equal in damage so I'd always take the Houppelande for slightly less resists and enmity, as well as the inventory+1 of not carrying Gomlek for nuking.

Otherwise, most RDM MAB is either in the hands or earrings, hands you can get a big chunk of MAB which generally outdoes the 4-5 INT you'll get out of the slot otherwise, and the +8-10 available from the legs really is too much to take whatever dinky MAB you can get from Cobra Gear in that slot.

SCH on the other hand has to make tough choices between skill, INT, and MAB all at the same time, between AF Body being thrown in the mix and their skill being low enough to seriously consider Genie Gages, and to a lesser extend Torque over Uggalepih Pendant for anything high-end.