3/10 patch changes to scholar

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Exactly, so, why do they only prohibit only one of them?

Probably because the system considers Sublimation as Refresh.

Why punish COR and BRD and radically change the way Rolls and Songs work just to make Ballads and Evoker's not work with Sublimation? They're totally different forms of Refresh, totally different duration and criteria for thier values.

[Coinspinner]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I haven't done my SCH AF yet, but for those that have. The Enhanced Light/Dark Arts (from body/legs) add +15 to corresponding skill . . . . .. where does that put SCH's magic skill then? at A-? or A?

Level 61
A+ = 207
B+ = 199 (199 + 15 = 214) Higher than A+.

Level 75
A+ = 276
B+ = 256 (256 + 15 = 271) Between A- and A+.

EDIT: Changed B- to B+.

AF Body and legs are really, really awesome items.

[Gobo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Arts give B+ not B-

so its 256+15=271...so just above A-

[Malacite]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I thought arts was solid B rating, not B+?

Light Arts - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

Notes/Description

* Using Light Arts gives a scholar access to abilities that enhance white magic.
* Light Arts reduces MP costs for White Magic spells by 10%, and increases MP costs for Black Magic spells by 20%.
* Light Arts decreases casting time for white magic by 5-10%, and increases casting time for black magic by 20%.
* Light Arts reduces recast time for white magic by 10%, and increases recast time for black magic by 20%.
* The change in spell cost and recast times will be reflected in the spell menu.
* Raises the skill cap for Enhancing Magic, Enfeebling Magic, Divine Magic, and Healing Magic from a D rating to a B rating. Note that this will increase sub job skills to the main job's level at a B rating.
* Raises your divine, enhancing, enfeebling, and healing magic. If your main job skill is 0-200 it brings it to 246, 210-250, it's raised to 256, 256-276, it has no effect. This is on Lv75 jobs.
* Skill ups are still possible even if you are over the skill cap after using Light Arts (assuming you were below cap before using Light Arts).

[Gobo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I thought arts was solid B rating, not B+?

Light Arts - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

It has it listed as 256, which is B+. Both Wikis have this as the listing. Best thing we can do is ask someone who has SCH leveled past 60. That would give a concrete answer.

[Truece]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Probably because the system considers Sublimation as Refresh.

Why punish COR and BRD and radically change the way Rolls and Songs work just to make Ballads and Evoker's not work with Sublimation? They're totally different forms of Refresh, totally different duration and criteria for thier values.

OK, but replace COR or BRD with RDM and Rolls and Songs with Spell. SE obviously went through some trouble to make it so refresh and sublimation don't work together. I'd like to understand why.

Do they feel that BRD/SCH or COR/SCH is OK because they don't have a native MP pool? What's the difference between having 3-5 MP refresh via Ballad or Evoker's Roll and using sublimation, and having 3 MP Refresh and using sublimation? The end result should be the same.

I can see no reason why the system should consider sublimation and refresh the same effect. They've clearly got different symbols. Their effects are completely different. I can see how sublimation and convert wouldn't be able to be used together, as they kind of accomplish the same thing, but the way the Refresh and Sublimation don't work together doesn't make sense to me.

I would just like to hear why they implemented Sublimation in this manner. I'm not sure that RDM/SCH would be broken, and I fail to see how having refresh on me while I've got Sublimation active is any different from having Ballads or Evoker's Roll.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I think its because as SE stated long ago "Considering spells that will allow red mage more time on the front line". They didnt say they were going to add new spells like the community assumed. I think refresh as well as haste have been targeted for rdms to cast less in accordance with their consideration.

I will talk about sublimation first and follow with the rest of my hypothesis.

1 Refresh
SCH, /SCH, Sublimation

Sublimation restores MP to be used at a later time, i call it "Ghetto Convert". This apparently can take seveal minutes for a full charge. It is usable with stoneskin to negate the HP loss and allow for resting between fights. In accordance with my hypothesis refresh isnt cast on top of sublimation, because this is sevral extra minutes a RDM will have with one less in the refresh cycle. Allowing them to do extra things be it melee,cure,buff,debuff,nuke.

SMN- Syphon MP

SMN's ability alows it to restore a few hundred MP evey 5 minutes by "Syphoning" MP from a Elemental Spirit. I like to call this "Mega Aspir". A SMN using Mega aspir is not totally devoid of refresh, how ever in combanation with "Ghetto Convert" Refresh will be needed to cast less on a SCH.

The haste effect.

With the advent of sublimation more mage jobs are going to be considered welcome in high end merit parties. Typically TP burns, where RDM was the #1 choice because of the energizer bunny effect.

WHM/SCH

WHM has a very good gift, and used correctly takes another spell out of the RDM's hands, that spell is Haste. Now generally RDM's and WHM's typically would split this task. (and should regardless). The thing is now WHM has a semi enegizer battery effect and can carry haste cycles and main heal with out needing to be overly concerned with MP. This extra casting ability provides even more time to a RDM to melee,buff,heal,debuff,nuke etc.

SMN/SCH

SMN has the gravey ability to use hastega. While using a sch sub the smn has even more MP to work with as well as an arsenal of -na spells at its disposal,and of course aspir and drain. The much improved MP efficent SMN can now cast hastega more often with out the need to worry about MP levels as much as it did before. Again allowing the RDM more time to melee,buff,debuff,heal,nuke etc.

This SCH ability seems to be SE's answer to RDM's complaints about casting loads etc. Which to me makes sense since you cant refresh someone under sublimation, but they can receive ballad and evokers roll.

Sorry for going into to much detail but Just got out of a party with 2x SAM/WAR, 1x WAR/NIN, 1x BRD/NIN 1xSMN/SCH 1X RDM/NIN fighting mamool ja. Was really excited to post how well the back line rolled, I had time to melee, enfeeble, MB. I rarely used Refresh outside of myself because the SMN was in constant sublimation and every 5 minutes would Mega Aspir as well as double Ballad. It was the most fun ive had in a TP Burn party in about 6 months. It really had that old school Traditional Party feel without the OMG it Hurts to TP BURN felling I received for the last 2 years.(Sam Self SC's FTW)


On a completely unrelated note has anyone tried using AoE enspells yet with 256+22 enhancing magic i get 19 base damage on the strong element (6 on the weak ftr) Just curious to know if SCH matches, should be about 17-19 dmg.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

OK, but replace COR or BRD with RDM and Rolls and Songs with Spell. SE obviously went through some trouble to make it so refresh and sublimation don't work together. I'd like to understand why.

Do they feel that BRD/SCH or COR/SCH is OK because they don't have a native MP pool? What's the difference between having 3-5 MP refresh via Ballad or Evoker's Roll and using sublimation, and having 3 MP Refresh and using sublimation? The end result should be the same.

I can see no reason why the system should consider sublimation and refresh the same effect. They've clearly got different symbols. Their effects are completely different. I can see how sublimation and convert wouldn't be able to be used together, as they kind of accomplish the same thing, but the way the Refresh and Sublimation don't work together doesn't make sense to me.

I would just like to hear why they implemented Sublimation in this manner. I'm not sure that RDM/SCH would be broken, and I fail to see how having refresh on me while I've got Sublimation active is any different from having Ballads or Evoker's Roll.

Highlighted the best possible answer.

Think about it - RDM gets Convert, Refresh. These two ablilites alone allow for an insane amount of endurance.

COR and BRD have to swap out thier refreshes at some point if they do go /WHM. At some point, melee buffs need to go up and that means other buffs on the COR or BRD have to go down. Refresh stays up no matter how many buffs RDM applies to himself and thereby does not suffer the same potential MP shortages BRD and especially COR can face. Sublimation not only grants them access to good stuff from /WHM, but lets them run around without this pontetial loss to MP.

This also struck me as I pondered the potentially needless addition of Dancer's Roll. I wanted it so badly to be Haste, but what's the one other thing that BRD and RDM have that COR doesn't?

Regen.

Regen actually helps negate Sublimation to a degree, this allows COR to run around and not only have a means of making up the penalty they suffer for using it. At the same time, they can afford to /SCH and get MP back with sublimation.

But really, I think RDMs are getting wound up over nothing. SCH and /SCHdoesn't have to use Sublimation if they have a RDM, BRD or COR. They can just stop using it and take those. Sublimation is placed under sub level so it can be be used by other mages and jobs for a little more MP endurance than they had before. Being utterly dependant on COR, BRD and RDM is problematic since there's not always one available (or in RDM's case AFK or pretending to be.)

Does this mean RDM, BRD or COR will be less desireable for PTs? No, absolutely not, its just if people need to do mission on a small group or EXP PT, RDM, BRD and COR stopped being a *must* and instead became an option just like every other job.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Sublimation restores MP to be used at a later time, i call it "Ghetto Convert".

[ ... ]

SMN- Syphon MP

SMN's ability alows it to restore a few hundred MP evey 5 minutes by "Syphoning" MP from a Elemental Spirit. I like to call this "Mega Aspir".

... Why not just call them "Sublimation" and "Elemental Siphon" instead?

WHM/SCH

WHM has a very good gift, and used correctly takes another spell out of the RDM's hands, that spell is Haste. Now generally RDM's and WHM's typically would split this task. (and should regardless). The thing is now WHM has a semi enegizer battery effect and can carry haste cycles and main heal with out needing to be overly concerned with MP. This extra casting ability provides even more time to a RDM

This makes no sense; if RDM is in party, WHM/SCH will get more MP from Refresh than than Sublimation--that means if a RDM wants a WHM to do more work, he should give the WHM Refresh and ask the WHM not to use Sublimation, since that would give the WHM more MP to work with.

This SCH ability seems to be SE's answer to RDM's complaints about casting loads etc. Which to me makes sense since you cant refresh someone under sublimation, but they can receive ballad and evokers roll.

Or, it maybe it's just meant to boost Scholar and mages with /SCH in party without Refresh? That it doesn't work with Refresh may be a bug?

Why invent a convoluted story around RDM, when the updates are to SCH and SMN?

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Because i like Nick Names for things it makes them sound intereting...

Im not trying to invent a convulted story, its a hypothesis, a educated guess. Perhaps SE did design this to give RDM a break or perhaps they didnt. We are both guessing at this point. But right now thats the way it works and it does seem to go along the lines of their consideration.

WHM/SCH would gain a B+ Skill in Dark as well, allowing them to use Aspir to its near full potential. Again a hypothetical assumption based of the nature of /SCH.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

Why invent a convoluted story around RDM, when the updates are to SCH and SMN?

Its his passion to be an embarassment.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

HYPOTHESIS

1. A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation.

2. Something taken to be true for the purpose of argument or investigation; an assumption.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

HYPOTHESIS

1. A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation.

2. Something taken to be true for the purpose of argument or investigation; an assumption.

Ahem. Occam's Razor.

The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony" or "law of succinctness"): "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem", or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity".

This is often paraphrased as "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as a heuristic maxim (rule of thumb) that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity, often or especially in scientific theories.

In the spirit of that, I prefer "S-E buffed SMN for SMN's sake" and "S-E buffed SCH for SCH's sake" over the big theory on why everything is about RDM.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

when a question is asked pertaining to a RDM spell it thus becomes a RDM thing now dosent it. I answered it with the reason i thought, Refresh can not be cast beause SE designed it to cut down on RDM spell casting in an effort to allow them more time to do other things. If another class could cast refresh then it wouldnt be a RDM thing now would it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

when a question is asked pertaining to a RDM spell it thus becomes a RDM thing now dosent it. I answered it with the reason i thought, Refresh can not be cast beause SE designed it to cut down on RDM spell casting in an effort to allow them more time to do other things. If another class could cast refresh then it wouldnt be a RDM thing now would it.

I think you're looking for reasons to melee where SE isn't putting them. But then, let's just go off your brief history here:

• You'd rather have Haste and Minuet than Ballad from BRDs as a RDM.
• Then updates on SMN are SCH aren't for the self-sufficency of those jobs, but to look for reasons for you to melee.
• By extention, you probably think this was DNC's intent too, not to free up melees and help them be more independant, but so RDMs could melee.

The intent is self-sufficency and to pry other players off thier dependancy toward RDM, BRD and COR from where I'm standing. This way, when one of those jobs isn't seeking, a PT can still survive and succeed without them.

Just did a merit PT with no job that had the word "mage" in it and the largest MP pool in it as 300, held by a PUP. It wasn't mind blowing EXP per hour, but it was fine by me. No one ever camps trolls on Odin