3/10 patch changes to scholar

[Luna]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

The kind of people showing up on the forums lately is starting to make me feel tired...

1. Dont read their posts then its not like you actually have to reply to them anyway.
2. I'm not taking anything the wrong way, Only something that is presented in a manor as such can be taken in the way it was presented. Dont make me look like a fool just b/c you did not clearly state what you meant.
3. Yes I may have been wrong about what those other 2 where trying to do only b/c I didnt read the original posts they made instead I read the quoted parts and from that point of view it seemed to follow more along the lines of how I replied.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

There's a difference here, though: Sanction/Sigil Refresh is not the Refresh status. It doesn't take up the spot that juices and RDM's Refresh spell do. Neither do Ballad or Evoker's Roll; as far as I know, those are also compatible with Sublimation. Thus, you running around with Sigil Refresh does not prove that the spell Refresh can be cast on you, or that you can drink juice. My complaint is that I can't cast Refresh on someone under either form of Sublimation, and that's going to lead to conflict between RDMs and SCHs (and /SCHs), where before the two jobs were complementary. -- Pteryx

They don't need to stack. SCH have the option to just not use Sublimation when a RDM is present, but far as I can tell, I can manage just fine on my own having Conserve MP, +hMP gear, Clear Mind, Penury, Parsimony and Sublimation.

Sublimation's design is clearly made for self sufficient purposes where RDM is not present or needed. You can't seriously expect SE to nerf Ballad or Evoker's just because they're different status effects. The whole problem with RDM and fellow mages has been our dependancy on RDMs - this fixes that.

Think about how that frees up a COR - I may not have to use Evoker's, but instead, I can use Scholar's Roll, Wizard's Roll or Warlock's Roll

Again, Sublimation + Refresh would be overpowered. Elemental Siphon + Sublimation is insanely powerful, but in the case of SMN, totally needed as well.

The kind of people showing up on the forums lately is starting to make me feel tired...

Meh, just blacklist them, then you don't have to deal with it.

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

>.>


<.<



I like miniskirts on mithras.

*hides*

[Luna]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

They don't need to stack. SCH have the option to just not use Sublimation when a RDM is present, but far as I can tell, I can manage just fine on my own having Conserve MP, +hMP gear, Clear Mind, Penury, Parsimony and Sublimation.

I agree, and when a RDM was in my pt I wouldn't use sublimination at all it really proves to be useless unless there is no RDM in the party.

Sublimation's design is clearly made for self sufficient purposes where RDM is not present or needed. You can't seriously expect SE to nerf Ballad or Evoker's just because they're different status effects. The whole problem with RDM and fellow mages has been our dependancy on RDMs - this fixes that.

I agree we do rely way too much on RDM, and now that SCH doesnt really "Have" to have a RDM in their pt it makes it all the better, I kinda like COR and BRD Myself AoE refresh just seems a lot more useful, save the RDM's for the tank/dd partys.

Meh, just blacklist them, then you don't have to deal with it.

Blacklisting someone just b/c you dont agree with what they are saying just shows you have major character flaws (low self esteem maybe?), If you are being cursed out or totally harassed then I can understand but for a simple disagreement? Thats a bit too much considering the person you would blacklist could reply on something els with useful information to you, and you wouldn't see it b/c you had a stick stuck up your ass and blacklisted them b/c you didn't see "eye to eye" (I am not gearing that comment towards anyone in general so don't get all offensive and make it look like I singled you out for attention or something I'm not that nice)

[Celeal]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

>.>


<.<



I like miniskirts on mithras.

*hides*

With a cat's tail included?

[Luna]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

>.>


<.<



I like miniskirts on mithras.

*hides*

I agree the SCH af is soooo cute!!!!!!!

[nanatsu]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

One thing I'm really interested in finding out, is that are SCH really weak in the lower levels? I've heard people say that you can't take on anything higher than an EP and I find that hard to believe that SCH would be so weak. Even my SMN did better than that lower than level 10 and it seems like grinding out those first few levels would be hellish if it's true that they're that physically weak.

1. Dont read their posts then its not like you actually have to reply to them anyway.
2. I'm not taking anything the wrong way, Only something that is presented in a manor as such can be taken in the way it was presented. Dont make me look like a fool just b/c you did not clearly state what you meant.
3. Yes I may have been wrong about what those other 2 where trying to do only b/c I didnt read the original posts they made instead I read the quoted parts and from that point of view it seemed to follow more along the lines of how I replied.

I stated quite clearly what I meant. If you didn't understand what Onionsoldier really meant, and you didn't understand what Karinya really meant, how am I supposed to believe that there is something somehow wrong with what I wrote that makes you misunderstand what I meant? You're. Not. Reading. Things. Correctly.

The very last thing I wanted was to make you look like a fool. But you took it that way for little to no reason. I was trying to help. But apparently helping people understand a situation is grounds for character defamation.

Having said all that, if I have offended you in some way then I whole-heartedly and sincerely apologize. I can bet dollars to donuts that you're going to somehow take these words as an attack towards you, however. Despite that, I'm not going to blist. Just not going to reply to anything else from you until you calm down.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

One thing I'm really interested in finding out, is that are SCH really weak in the lower levels? I've heard people say that you can't take on anything higher than an EP and I find that hard to believe that SCH would be so weak. Even my SMN did better than that lower than level 10 and it seems like grinding out those first few levels would be hellish if it's true that they're that physically weak.

I've soled SCH past the dunes, mostly on worms (N. Gusta > N. Gusta (S) > Maze of Shakarami) . From there on out, no reason to turn one down for a PT.

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

With a cat's tail included?

Especially so.




Should I see a doctor for that? :x

[Saren]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

One thing I'm really interested in finding out, is that are SCH really weak in the lower levels? I've heard people say that you can't take on anything higher than an EP and I find that hard to believe that SCH would be so weak. Even my SMN did better than that lower than level 10 and it seems like grinding out those first few levels would be hellish if it's true that they're that physically weak.

Smn is very strong after you get to about level 3 (just so your pet actually stays with you through 3 fights or so). Sch is fairly horrible at low level. It's about half way between whm and blm physically and look at the spells you get 1-10:

4: stone
5: cure
8: water
10: poisona
10: Protect

That's a long time with not a lot of tools and bear in mind you don't get light/dark arts till 10 (so 2 hr is out to level 10) so you are casting all those with D capped skill maximum. You can't really pull the /dd and smack stuff with sch so well as you can with whm/rdm/blm because not much in the way of spells and no enfeebles natively.

[Luna]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

One thing I'm really interested in finding out, is that are SCH really weak in the lower levels? I've heard people say that you can't take on anything higher than an EP and I find that hard to believe that SCH would be so weak. Even my SMN did better than that lower than level 10 and it seems like grinding out those first few levels would be hellish if it's true that they're that physically weak.

SCH at lower lvls is about as weak as any other mage (other than blm) b/c you dont get LA or DA to enhance your ability's till lvl 10 making your rank a D by default. The best thing to do Is fight anything but beastmen, and yeah I considered it pretty hellish till I reached lvl 10 where it got a bit easier especially in pt's and or being PL'd.

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I think SCH has received what it deserves, it now has the best of both worlds (all 3 if they go /RDM.) However to me Sublimation is going to become as much of a staple for all mage jobs (except RDM) as /NIN did for single handed melee jobs. The fact is SCH isnt stepping on the toes of WHM or BLM as much as they are on the toes of RDM. Any mage who does not /SCH to handle its own MP regeneration is retarded, and any mage who goes /SCH is asking to not receive refresh. With WHM or SMN subbing SCH, RDM is not needed(except for instances where teir 2 enfeebles are a must).

BLM dosent get invites to parties because they refused to assist the party post AM with cures or status healing. BLM dug there own hole a long time ago in response to ToA's magic resistance mobs they refused to main heal and were eventually let go. WHM lost its place to RDM because of superior MP efficentcy on the part of RDM, however WHM/SCH can now ghetto convert every 25's if it wishes and most WHM's already have 1-2 tics of refresh through gear, its toes not missing either.

All SCH has done is lightened the load off of RDM's Which we wanted. While RDM has now moved to 2nd or even 3rd place in the Main healer dept. We will still have our place endgame. Unfourtunatly for the RDM's that never found a way to XP outside of fast paced meripo, they will see a steady decline of invites as WHM regains its top rank healing platform. Unfourtunatly for the BLM's who couldnt accept the healers roll in ToA, yes SCH will step on your toes. As a carear RDM levels 60-75 were no fun, i rarely enfeebled and never nuked. BLM's got it easier then they pretend being able to Solo there XP while most jobs have to fight out for invites. SCH has bridged the gap between nuker/healer to an extent the RDM never could, BLM will always have big numbers but until they learn that they can do things besides drop AM and Teir 4's in a party situation yes SCH will step on your toes.

As for SCH vs RDM i am very torn one side of me is very angry while the otherside is not. 1. I am angry because SCH, /SCH Puts us out of a Job in certain regards, we are no longer the only botomless pit of cures, buff, debuffs, and MB's I feel that is the biggest infringment on any job. Another would be the striping of our enspells, SCH can now match our enhancing magic and with the enspell update, cast them with same proficency as a RDM, provided they are /RDM (which they should be). Sublimation renders our most trademark spell useless during its active time (from start till use of stored MP). Refresh is no longer a requirement for parties with more than 1 Mage. (especially a smn/sch or whm/sch)2. I am happy because the only toes that were "Stepped on" Were "lazy" RDM's, the ones who coasted through, living on refresh and convert. Unfourtunatley for them the time in the sun is over and now its time to be an acctual job that cant just coast. Thankfully for myself i have reinveted my job several times with various subs other than WHM, and know how to manipulate myself in a melee-mage setting. So to all those who laugh, or chirp RDM melee, welcome to the post Wotg era, where job balance has finally reached a reasonable level where 50-60(x2) /BLU, /DRK, or 40-50(x3) /NIN is possible and welcome from anyone that knows anything about SC systems.

[Zempten]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

And for those of you who still think SCH isn't encroaching on other mage's territory...

I don't think they are. I know they are. Just deal with it. Everyone's had their "territory" encroached on them. Mages aren't any more special

There. Right from the Scholar's mouth. Stratagems are so easy to come by, Addendum isn't a major obstacle at all.

Not sure when this statement was made in this thread, but a 4 min cool down on charges is retarded. There are plenty of situations where I wished I could have thrown up a new Stoneskin agaist Pecking Fury/Mamool Multi Hit moves/Firespit..etc. 4 mins & 3 charges is WAY too long. I'm glad the fix the charges and recast.

See? They are directly stealing spells from other mage jobs. Previously, if someone needed Erase or -Nas, they would need a WHM, or at the very least, /WHM. Now, SCH/Anything or Anything/SCH gets these natively with just an arts switch and a stratagem, something not to hard to come by. And I am not just worried about EXP situations. With a native Sleep II and the ability to -ga it, in addition to a higher Enfeebling skill then BLM, the only advantage BLM gets is Elemental Seal, which can be subbed!

Stealing is rather harsh. Is RDM considered stealing Haste/Stoneskin/Blink from WHM? is RDM considered stealing Sleep/Sleep2 from BLM? What qualifies as stealing? These are shared spells. It just means SCH's range of shared spells is greater, hardly stealing. BLMs still have Sleepga 2 so ES isn't exactly the "only" advantage a BLM has.

Okay, lets talk gear-wise. How does a SCH's nukes match up to a BLM's?

BLM/SCH Ultimate MAB:
Native MAB: +32%
H.Q. Stave: +15%
Sorcerer's Ring: +10%
Moldavite Earring: +5%
Novio Earring: +7%
Uggalepih Pendant: +8%
Genie Weskit +7%
Valkryie's Trews: +5%
Zenith Mitts +1: +6%
Total MAB: +95%

SCH/BLM Ultimate MAB:
Native MAB: +24%
Ebullience: +20%
H.Q. Stave: +15%
Moldavite Earring: +5%
Novio Earring: +7%
Uggalepih Pendant: +8%
Yigit Set: + 11%
Total MAB: +90%

There you have it. A 5% MAB difference. Yes, it helps, but given the fact that SCH also gets Raise & Reraise II, Helixes, Storms, Erase, and Dispel without a subjob, they simply out-utilize us. Most of the BLM gear is miles harder to get then the SCH gear anyway. Valkyrie's Trews? Not likely.

How does Ebullience count as gear? You said it yourself, there are other spells we have that we need (or might need)charges for.

Lets take it a step further though, shall we? Scholar, as mentioned previously, gets the Storm-Spells. Now, with proper Storm effect active and an Elemental Obi, Scholar gets another 10% MAB unconditionally. BLM, on the other hand, only can get a 2% MAB from a belt, which also gives a Slow+5% effect. This gives SCH a MAB of 100%, while we get 97%. There. Right there. They are better nukers then us. BLM the nuking king? Not any more.

Alright, tell us please what is stopping a BLM from wearing the Obi's as well? Better yet, explain to me how Ebullience-ing YOURSELF compares to giving 1 * n (where n is the number of BLMs in PT) & yourself a storm spell via Accession? I think we know which option gives the most DMG. Sure weathers are longer now, but that doesn't change the fact that you cannot always use Ebullience for EVERYSINGLE one of your nukes

As for AM II, you are right, you can argue MP efficency. Because it sucks. About +30% base damage, for +100% cost over a Tier IV nuke? not to mention the insane cast and recast times. But you don't want to argue that. Despire that MP Conservation is almost half of a mage's job, you say it doesn't matter. So lets take it out of the equation. What are we left with? Merits. Black Mage can not get AM II or Elemental Proficiency traits without meriting. The problem is that SCH can tie or surpass us without them . That is a problem. A job that specializes in magical damage should not need to merit to keep up with a situational jack-of-all trades job. Ever.

BLM's Elmental Magic Skill A+
SCH's Elemntal Magic Skill B+
I'd say 20 skill difference is pretty noticable.

Note to Self: Posting during Kings & DNC AFputs you really behind on things >.>

[Luna]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

I think SCH has received what it deserves, it now has the best of both worlds (all 3 if they go /RDM.) However to me Sublimation is going to become as much of a staple for all mage jobs (except RDM) as /NIN did for single handed melee jobs. The fact is SCH isnt stepping on the toes of WHM or BLM as much as they are on the toes of RDM. Any mage who does not /SCH to handle its own MP regeneration is retarded, and any mage who goes /SCH is asking to not receive refresh. With WHM or SMN subbing SCH, RDM is not needed(except for instances where teir 2 enfeebles are a must).

BLM dosent get invites to parties because they refused to assist the party post AM with cures or status healing. BLM dug there own hole a long time ago in response to ToA's magic resistance mobs they refused to main heal and were eventually let go. WHM lost its place to RDM because of superior MP efficentcy on the part of RDM, however WHM/SCH can now ghetto convert every 25's if it wishes and most WHM's already have 1-2 tics of refresh through gear, its toes not missing either.

All SCH has done is lightened the load off of RDM's Which we wanted. While RDM has now moved to 2nd or even 3rd place in the Main healer dept. We will still have our place endgame. Unfourtunatly for the RDM's that never found a way to XP outside of fast paced meripo, they will see a steady decline of invites as WHM regains its top rank healing platform. Unfourtunatly for the BLM's who couldnt accept the healers roll in ToA, yes SCH will step on your toes. As a carear RDM levels 60-75 were no fun, i rarely enfeebled and never nuked. BLM's got it easier then they pretend being able to Solo there XP while most jobs have to fight out for invites. SCH has bridged the gap between nuker/healer to an extent the RDM never could, BLM will always have big numbers but until they learn that they can do things besides drop AM and Teir 4's in a party situation yes SCH will step on your toes.

As for SCH vs RDM i am very torn one side of me is very angry while the otherside is not. 1. I am angry because SCH, /SCH Puts us out of a Job in certain regards, we are no longer the only botomless pit of cures, buff, debuffs, and MB's I feel that is the biggest infringment on any job. Another would be the striping of our enspells, SCH can now match our enhancing magic and with the enspell update, cast them with same proficency as a RDM, provided they are /RDM (which they should be). Sublimation renders our most trademark spell useless during its active time (from start till use of stored MP). Refresh is no longer a requirement for parties with more than 1 Mage. (especially a smn/sch or whm/sch)2. I am happy because the only toes that were "Stepped on" Were "lazy" RDM's, the ones who coasted through, living on refresh and convert. Unfourtunatley for them the time in the sun is over and now its time to be an acctual job that cant just coast. Thankfully for myself i have reinveted my job several times with various subs other than WHM, and know how to manipulate myself in a melee-mage setting. So to all those who laugh, or chirp RDM melee, welcome to the post Wotg era, where job balance has finally reached a reasonable level where 50-60(x2) /BLU, /DRK, or 40-50(x3) /NIN is possible and welcome from anyone that knows anything about SC systems.

I love you!! finally someone who woke up to smell the coffee.....

[MrMageo]

Re: 3/10 patch changes to scholar

thank you folgers ftw