Blink and Stoneskin

[Coinspinner]

Information from Online D (Dengeki), courtesy of Elmer of BlueGartr:

# Scholar plays like a BLM or RDM early on until it gets more of its unique abilities. We have heard complaints that it is hard to sub BLM because of the lack of Blink and Stoneskin. Also, choosing SCH as a support to BLM poses the same issue. We are considering added abilities to make the choice more enticing.

Thanks. That's all BLM/SCH and SCH/BLM really need to be viable, and lack of Gravity still keeps it from being the one true sub.

The rest of the post is nice too.

[Emerald Melios]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

The lack of Blink & Stoneskin is an unfortunate omission to be sure.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

I'm actually hoping BLM can get a new, unique self protection buff which is accessible from /BLM, while SCH gets another.

Not sure what they'd be... May be a one-hit protection which... er... repulse/knock-back the attacker for some small damage for BLM? Call it "Repulse" or something?

As for SCH, maybe a "Ion Field"--something which stuns (but not damage) while absorbs (much of) the attack.

[Pteryx]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

First off, the way it's phrased I don't think they'll be adding Blink and Stoneskin specifically, but something new. Second, I somehow doubt that this'll be covered on the BLM side; the SCH side is more likely. Not like SCH doesn't need unique subbable spells anyway, and BLM != defense, Sleep aside. (Fatigue Spikes?)

I find myself imagining several things they could do. For one, they could make some sort of self-only defensive spell series that's dependent on the exact damage type, to play up the strategy aspect by requiring you to think ahead about what you're likely to be hit with. The three physical ones (blunt/pierce/slash) would be mutually exclusive, while the elemental ones would stack on the same rules as the ele enfeebles/Bio/Dia. Like Blink and Stoneskin you can avoid damage entirely through them, but unlike Blink and Stoneskin they don't work against just anything thrown at you.

For another, I could imagine, since one of SCH's themes is benefit over time (see Regen and Regen II early and Helix spells), a sort of regenerative Stoneskin spell -- say, 10 HP worth of Stoneskin gained per tick for three game hours, but topping out at 300 at a time, and the entire total vanishing when the spell ends.

Finally, I could imagine them adding another subbable Strategem pair with the benefit that the next spell you cast generates only half the normal Enmity (CE and VE). This would take skill to use effectively and wouldn't help soloability, but it would give mages a whole new way to push their limits in parties -- instead of pulling hate and letting their spells protect them from the consequences, they'd pull the crazy stunt with few to no consequences in the first place. -- Pteryx

[Coinspinner]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

First off, the way it's phrased I don't think they'll be adding Blink and Stoneskin specifically, but something new. Second, I somehow doubt that this'll be covered on the BLM side; the SCH side is more likely. Not like SCH doesn't need unique subbable spells anyway, and BLM != defense, Sleep aside. (Fatigue Spikes?)

The wording is Elmer's. I think Blink and Stoneskin, being the easy way out, is more likely than some mysterious new defensive spell. But I like your idea of damage-type specific resistance. Do mobs actually deal different damage types? Is there any armor that currently resists a particular damage type?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

Monsters use blunt damage for the most part, but not universally. (Wild Oats, Feather Storm, and Pinecone Bomb are piercing for example.) If players have type specific armor, I don't know any.

It mostly matters to BST who uses charmed monsters as pets.

* * *

While I would like to see SCH/BLM (and BLM/SCH) gain some defensive capabilities beyond spike spells, I don't think BLM/SCH and SCH/BM should have as much or as good of defensive measures as SCH/WHM (or BLM/WHM). The objective is to make SCH/BLM and BLM/SCH viable, not make /WHM obsolete, right?

[Coinspinner]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

Monsters use blunt damage for the most part, but not universally. (Wild Oats, Feather Storm, and Pinecone Bomb are piercing for example.) If players have type specific armor, I don't know any.
It mostly matters to BST who uses charmed monsters as pets.

Thanks.

While I would like to see SCH/BLM (and BLM/SCH) gain some defensive capabilities beyond spike spells, I don't think BLM/SCH and SCH/BM should have as much or as good of defensive measures as SCH/WHM (or BLM/WHM). The objective is to make SCH/BLM and BLM/SCH viable, not make /WHM obsolete, right?

...what? /WHM provides more than Cure 3, Blink and Stoneskin. On both BLM and SCH, if you want status cure or (good) Curaga, you sub WHM. Divine Seal isn't anything to sneeze at either. Otherwise you sub RDM, which provides those same three spells and a different set of benefits. Both would retain their utility in the face of SCH getting it's basic defensive spells.

Hell, in the 30s I was asked to go SCH/WHM against bats and beetles, which have nothing for me to -Na and no AoE to Curaga, and we had a WHM and DNC in those parties. I don't think /WHM is going anywhere.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

...what?

Heh. My idea is this:

BLM/SCH is a better DD than BLM/WHM. Being a DD is defined by able to output good damage, but have less capability in terms of self defense or party support. So, being a better DD should have the trade off of less self defensive capability and less party support capability.

However, "less" doesn't mean effectively zero, which is what BLM/SCH's self-defense current amounts to in my eyes. (Stun is great, but duration is so short that I don't think it's enough. Plus, Stun also has the nasty habit of keeping you in trouble by adding to enmity.)

Same idea for SCH/BLM vs. SCH/WHM; SCH/BLM shouldn't have as nice of combination as Stoneskin + Blink either, yet should have enough of something else so one doesn't risk death on minor over nukes.

Two effective, one-shot-only self-defense spells (with relatively long recast and high MP cost)--one for SCH, and one for BLM--would give BLM/SCH a little more margin for error, while making SCH/BLM more viable without disrupting things too much, IMO.

Can't wait to see what S-E has in mind.

* * *

Hell, in the 30s I was asked to go SCH/WHM against bats and beetles, which have nothing for me to -Na and no AoE to Curaga, and we had a WHM and DNC in those parties. I don't think /WHM is going anywhere.

I'd voluntarily to go either /WHM or /RDM on those critters, unless there's already a RDM in party.

Although costing more MP, I'd cast Paralyze and Slow with Dark Arts to make the tanks' lives a bit easier. (Dia I would cast with Light Arts instead.) WHM support job definitely has use beyond -na and Curaga.

* * *

Nuking at Lv.30's just isn't as much fun as in the Lv.20's, since SCH can't get Magic Attack Bonus II like BLM can. I'd still nuke on MBs, of course, but getting SCs is difficult.

SCH32 now, and I don't see myself insisting on /BLM unless there is already WHM or /WHM in party. Even then, I may pick /WHM or /RDM anyway for enfeebling magic spells. Getting to SCH40 on /WHM only would be just fine with me.

[Coinspinner]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

Ok, now I understand. Still don't quite agree, but whatever. Melee DD can have a combination of defense and power via their subs, with Trick Attack, Seigan, and Utsusemi. They don't seem to give up much really. Whatever were added in place of Stoneskin ought to have it's ability to prevent interrupts. The ability to rest with DoTs on too.

"Repulse" would have to be on BLM so they could use it in conjunction with Gravity, though honestly Shock Spikes and Igqira Curse achieve the same thing. It'd have to be huge knockback, or else prevent interrupt.

"Ion Field", if it's basically stun+phalanx, isn't very useful to BLM if they don't get an innate anti-interrupt spell, but if it were white magic it would reduce the utility of SCH/RDM which you were trying to avoid.

Defending my choice of sub in the 30s: I prefer to make the tank's life easier by making things dead sooner. :p

Given the party makeups, only half of which I made myself, I think was correct in subbing BLM. (And I did pull out /WHM for Poisona once.) I don't miss the +4 MAB very much at all, what with the benefits Arts provides. Without the initial +20 MAB though, and the snazzy /BLM earring, nuking at all feels like a waste. (Also, if I'm not mistaken, Hojo/Kurayami/Jubaku/Retsu are better than their magical counterparts, yes? I'd still throw them if I saw a lot of resists, but they can be wasteful.)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blink and Stoneskin

Defending my choice of sub in the 30s: I prefer to make the tank's life easier by making things dead sooner. :p

Given the party makeups, only half of which I made myself, I think was correct in subbing BLM. (And I did pull out /WHM for Poisona once.) I don't miss the +4 MAB very much at all, what with the benefits Arts provides. Without the initial +20 MAB though, and the snazzy /BLM earring, nuking at all feels like a waste. (Also, if I'm not mistaken, Hojo/Kurayami/Jubaku/Retsu are better than their magical counterparts, yes? I'd still throw them if I saw a lot of resists, but they can be wasteful.)

Of course, support job choice depends on party set up. If a party has WHM and RDM already, I'd go /BLM as well. (Though, they really should get a BLM instead of my SCH, in that case.)

As to Ninjutsu enfeebs being better than magic version, that's true in some sense, but it's an oversimplification to leave it at that.

1. My understanding is that the Ninjutsu enfeebs have set potency, which is higher than what mages can achieve at low levels. At higher level with more MND and INT gear available, however, it's quite possible to match and exceed them.

2. It takes time to cast the Ninjutsu, especially the ichi versions. That's time not swinging weapon for Ninja, and possibly time during which copy images could be used up and waiting for Utsusemi to be recasted. It may be more efficient for the Ninja to try one enfeeb while leaving the mages to do the rest.

3. Not every party has a NIN tank. (Plus, not all NINs carry the tools for enfeebs--even those who do, they often have only Sairui-ran and/or Kaginawa.)