Rindomaru vs Hagun

[Mezlo]

So this is for the numbes people... Are there any stats that the Rindomaru can get that can make it close to or better than a hagun? It would be nice to be able to sell the hagun if i can get a weapon comparable. I'm thinking hagun will still have the upper hand even with the increased damage and +5% ws damage.

[Malacite]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

Yes.

The absolute best Rindo I've seen had Store TP +16, Weapon Skill Damage +5% and Weaponskill Accuracy +4. If you own Usukane Body & Feet, this will allow you a 5-hit build with Rindomaru. With the higher base damage + the 5% damage boost (coupled with the extra WS frequency) it does in fact beat a Hagun, but only with said gear to back it up.

On it's own, Hagun is about a 10% damage boost to WS.

[Armando]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

On it's own, Hagun is about a 10% damage boost to WS.

20%

And sorry but I'm too busy playing Fire Emblem to do math for you today. Maybe tomorrow.

Maybe.

[Malacite]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

Yeah the wiki says it's 20 but ppl @ BG were arguing all in a hissy about the final numbers being 10% higher or some BS?

Either way with proper gear Rindo wins out through the increased DoT and what (if I'm not mistaken) is a 20~25% increase in WS frequency? (5-hit instead of 6)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

/gets out the Hagun Zombie repellant.

That's really all I've got for this topic.

And sorry but I'm too busy playing Fire Emblem to do math for you today. Maybe tomorrow.

Send those Peg Knights after the archers man!

[Armando]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

Yeah the wiki says it's 20 but ppl @ BG were arguing all in a hissy about the final numbers being 10% higher or some BS?

Then I'm going to have to ask where this math is coming from. Numbers or it didn't happen.

But if Rindomaru enables a 5-hit build that's impossible or impractical with Hagun, then it *should* win as long as you don't hold TP.

Send those Peg Knights after the archers man!

No thanks, I don't want them sucking up all the EXP.

Fucking Titania.

[Malacite]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

I probably should rephrase that; I meant the damage done to the mob will be 10% higher than other GKT's on average, but again I still don't know where some ppl at BG get their math from. I tend to take a lot of what they post over there with a grain of salt unless it's from one of the better ppl like Kirschy.


For a 450 GKT for example you need a bare minimum of 74 STP;



25 Base + 10 Merits + 5 Rajas + 13 Usukane (Feet & Body) + 1 Ecphoria + 1 Brutal + 4 Rose Strap = 59 STP. So you need a bare minimum of +15 STP on Rindo with all that gear unless you want to eat Carbonara, but 16 is ideal since that lets you take out the Ecphoria Ring. All this without sacrificing any haste gear. The only way Hagun is getting that high (and thus would beat Rindomaru) is with a Samurai's Roll buff, though depending on the jobs in a merit pt you may rather have Fighter's or Chaos Roll (usually Fighter's I would imagine) to go along Corsair's for maximum EXP (35k/hour)

[Armando]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

I probably should rephrase that; I meant the damage done to the mob will be 10% higher than other GKT's on average, but again I still don't know where some ppl at BG get their math from.

No, see, that's actually logical. Not all of your damage comes from WS. Obvious. So, a 20% improvement in WS damage isn't going to translate into a 20% improvement in total damage. If 60% of your damage came from WS, you'd see a 12% improvement in total damage since 60% of 20% is 12%.

But to use that figure and pit it against a 25% improvement in WS frequency is comparing apples and oranges. For the same reasons as above, a 25% improvement in WS frequency won't translate into 25% more total damage either.

[Mezlo]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

The only way Hagun is getting that high (and thus would beat Rindomaru) is with a Samurai's Roll buff, though depending on the jobs in a merit pt you may rather have Fighter's or Chaos Roll (usually Fighter's I would imagine) to go along Corsair's for maximum EXP (35k/hour)

I just got my COR to 75 and did tp burn on birds, and we didn't use COR role. We did Samurai and Chaos roll. Is it a better choice to use COR roll? I was under the impression that taking any buffs away from the melee would slow down the XP gain, thus not making it worth it.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

I just got my COR to 75 and did tp burn on birds, and we didn't use COR role. We did Samurai and Chaos roll. Is it a better choice to use COR roll? I was under the impression that taking any buffs away from the melee would slow down the XP gain, thus not making it worth it.

Even without Snake Eye, Fold--heck, without Double Up--Corsair's Roll means 13% better exp on average.

Which roll would you replace it with to get more than 13% faster kills in a merit party? Even if you could get that 13%+ better kill rate, there's a real danger of killing too fast at the Greater Colibri camp and risk breaking chain that way.

Assuming it's a party with BRD and COR, I'd think the the norm would be March x2, Chaos Roll, Corsair's Roll. Can't actually recall any merit party with a COR but no BRD, so no clue what those parties usually do.

[Malacite]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

COR roll is only for the really really good merit parties where you literally can't do anything to increase kill speed, thus COR roll becomes the only way to increase EXP further. Hence the 35k/hour parties (seriously pimped out players onry)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

Even without Snake Eye, Fold--heck, without Double Up--Corsair's Roll means 13% better exp on average.

Which roll would you replace it with to get more than 13% faster kills in a merit party? Even if you could get that 13%+ better kill rate, there's a real danger of killing too fast at the Greater Colibri camp and risk breaking chain that way.

Assuming it's a party with BRD and COR, I'd think the the norm would be March x2, Chaos Roll, Corsair's Roll. Can't actually recall any merit party with a COR but no BRD, so no clue what those parties usually do.

Assuming.

COR Roll is something you don't use on-demand, anyway.

A PT without the BRD is typically going to expect the COR to pull. With or without a Peacemaker in a competitive camp, this is going to put a lot of pressure on the COR. The COR will still need to give the PT proper buffs, too. Most will try to eek by on Hunter's for the melee and Evoker's , but Chaos and Healer's may also be practical. Depending upon the skill of your COR, they might or might not be able to get two buffs on both sides of the PT. Typically not, they'll be morons that full-time Luzaf's Ring and hit the whole PT with Evoker's and Hunter's.

COR Roll is only worth it if a BRD is present since he can make up one of the common buffs they share in the COR's stead and pull as well. This free things up for COR roll, but should be a three buff cycle at minimum still. Two layers of refresh on the mage is powerful and that's before considering it might be a RDM. Chaos + Madrigal + March should be more than sufficient for the melee, so the COR now has room to do Corsair's Roll.

I really only merit using Corsair's Roll if there's a guarantee I'm going to have a BRD and be allowed to melee as /RNG or /DNC.

I'm still baffled as to why in that situation, CORs still show up /WHM even if they have a Joyeuse. /DNC is waaaaaay more effective than /WHM since there are Steps to use, lots of free TP with Joyeuse. Plus if a PLD is there, you can use Aspir Samba depending upon the mob.

[falloutboy14]

Re: Rindomaru vs Hagun

As a cor, I'll either use chaos/sam for DD's. If there's no sam, and there's a war, I'll use fighter's instead. Then evokers/corsair for mage and myself if I have time, assuming the mage isn't have issues with mp, in which case scholar's.

With a good pt, I can do chaos, corsair everyone, evokers on mage and still keep chain going.