Warrior

[Malacite]

Re: Warrior

Also, Berserk is overrated at lower levels,

Not when you eat meat and use acid bolts.

[Karinya]

Re: Warrior

On paper, WAR does look stronger with Berserk and higher DPS weapons, and Shield Break is more useful than anything DRG can do. However, in practice, I held critters' attention better tanking on DRG/WAR in Valkurm Dunes than on WAR/MNK when I forget boost. That, and I parsed my DRG through Lv.30 (or 31?), and never been out damaged, led me to think maybe DRG out do WAR damage wise in early levels, especially if adding in Wyvern's output. (DRG's DD output is that good; I remember commenting to my LS that S-E may want to consider nerfing DRG at those levels. )

Apples and oranges. Your hate is based on your direct damage, but Armando is including everything the WAR brings to the *party*, including reducing mob def and eva to benefit everyone's damage.

DRG does indeed do a lot of damage. But they do even more if they have Shield Break and Acid Bolts to work with. So does everyone else in the party. If you can keep those effects on the mob you're supporting your whole party's damage output to a degree that rivals a BRD or COR. And still hitting things with a big axe.

[Armando]

Re: Warrior

What they said. Also, what you said about Berserk goes both ways - pulls are slow at low levels but if you're in a slow party like that, odds are your fights take forever too. I believe it's a moot point anyways just like how you'll waste a large portion of Berserk between pulls, you'll also waste a large part of the cooldown time between pulls too. It'll still be up 3/5ths of the time and it'll still be giving +25% Attack.

Also, if the WAR doesn't go /DRG at 20 he can go /NIN at 24. A *smart* WAR/NIN would pull hate periodically to save the tank some hits, thus reducing downtime in addition to the all the buffs the WAR brought to the party. At 25 WAR's going to get Double Attack and that also gives it a big edge.

Of course, problem is most WARs fail at life and Dual Wield, those that do use Grat Axe don't Shield Break, don't use Acid Bolts, go for those e-peen Sturmwind numbers and only use shadows for their own protection.

[Delhart]

Re: Warrior

Haha, this definitely should have gone in the WAR forum... I figured it fit at the time though.

Would it be advisable to carry a great axe and axe and shield just incase something goes awry?

[Murphie]

Re: Warrior

Would it be advisable to carry a great axe and axe and shield just incase something goes awry?

It never hurts to have options. Just make sure your skill levels are up to date.

[Celeal]

Re: Warrior

IMHO, after the 2-handed weapon update, both Axe or Great Axe can be just as good, depends on the players' level range, gear, weapon selection, and subjob.

In terms of Axe + Shield, the selection of shield that WAR can use for defense/tanking is very limited, or from my own experience ---- not very effective. For pure DD-wise, compares /NIN Axe + offhand weapon to Axe + Shield, dual wield offers offhand hit during WS and better DoT (but same TP gain). For example, using Rampage with Axe + Shield compares to /NIN Axe + offhand weapon, the difference is noticeable.

As for popular G.Axe WS and Axe's WS, Raging Rush is on bar with Rampage now (before the 2-handed weapon adjustment, the gap was huge).

Unless the WAR have some really kick ass gear build for Axe, in general G.Axe is more flexible in terms of gear/weapon/food/subjob choices.

[Malacite]

Re: Warrior

The little bit of damage mitigation a shield offers seriously just doesn't stack up to the versatility of Great Axe. Sad to say but axes suck pre-55.

[Murphie]

Re: Warrior

I sincerely doubt you are actually sad to say it. You are never sad to say anything. Especially if it's a complaint. It's ok to own that.

[Armando]

Re: Warrior

Actually, WARs actually get a Size 3 shield at 48, so in theory a WAR with an axe+shield combo wouldn't suck hardcore with Rampage.

[Malacite]

Re: Warrior

I'd still rather /NIN for shadows and the chance to score 1-2 extra hits on rampage.

And I do say it's sad for the same reasons I say the same about Scythe; there's no reason an A rated weapon should be so terrible for so long.

[Armando]

Re: Warrior

Axe isn't terrible. By any means. Daggers are terrible. The problem is that Great Axe is spectacular. And that's not a problem at all.

[Ziero]

Re: Warrior

I went for the cheaper ones on my DRK since I was also buying a scythe and great sword.

Lv5 Butterfly - 3k
Lv8 Inferno - 2k
Lv12 Great Axe - 5k
Lv16 Moth Axe - 8k
Lv20 Neckchopper - 40k (I don't plan to get this even though it is really nice.)
Lv25 Plantbane - 10k

Armor will certainly be your greater expense (Scale > Bone > Beetle > Chain). Just make sure to keep Signet on as much as possible and sell your drops on the AH.

Both Butterfly Axe and the Great Axe are NPC'd in Bastok, for 300-400 and 4-4.5k respectively. And You should really get the Neckchopper, it's just too damn sweet not to get.

Um, okay personally I chose not to go that route. I leveled Warrior with the intent on tanking and went WAR/DNC with axe/shield combo. You aren't a "bad Warrior" if you choose not to use a great axe. It all depends on how you want to play the job. That's just my two gil.

While going War/Dnc with Axe and Shield won't make you a "bad" Warrior, the guy using a Gaxe will be a better Warrior. Especially pre 25 when everything you fight has high def and people frequently over-hunt.

On paper, WAR does look stronger with Berserk and higher DPS weapons, and Shield Break is more useful than anything DRG can do. However, in practice, I held critters' attention better tanking on DRG/WAR in Valkurm Dunes than on WAR/MNK when I forget boost. That, and I parsed my DRG through Lv.30 (or 31?), and never been out damaged, led me to think maybe DRG out do WAR damage wise in early levels, especially if adding in Wyvern's output. (DRG's DD output is that good; I remember commenting to my LS that S-E may want to consider nerfing DRG at those levels. )

Also, Berserk is overrated at lower levels, since pulling speed is typically slow to allow for MP recovery; you can easily spend half of your Berserk time waiting for stuff to kill. Not that well geared WARs are weak, mind you; they definitely out did my DRK at Dunes levels and beyond.

Wait wait wait, you "forgetting" to boost is a strike against War how? War/Mnk with a Gaxe opening fights with Shield Break is an excellent tank for the first 30 or so levels. Especially when the player doesn't "forget" to use their abilities.

And I'll call BS on the whole "Berserk sucks cause you're always waiting", especially nowadays with the usage of hMP items, increased hybrid jobs capable of spot healing and the ability to chain T-VT mobs at high speeds instead of killing a single IT++ mob for 5 minutes. Which, as Armando pointed out, would make full use of 'zerk.

The little bit of damage mitigation a shield offers seriously just doesn't stack up to the versatility of Great Axe. Sad to say but axes suck pre-55.

I'm not sure if this holds true today, but before the 2 Hander update, dual Combat Caster Axes was down right wicked. Especially if you could get the +2 versions at 43.

Axe isn't terrible. By any means. Daggers are terrible. The problem is that Great Axe is spectacular. And that's not a problem at all.

Ain't that the truth. Combined with not getting a decent solo WS until 60, it's no wonder people thought Thf sucked

[Silent Howler]

Re: Warrior

Wait wait wait, you "forgetting" to boost is a strike against War how? War/Mnk with a Gaxe opening fights with Shield Break is an excellent tank for the first 30 or so levels. Especially when the player doesn't "forget" to use their abilities.

I don't see how a Warrior with a great axe is a better tank than a Warrior with axe/shield. The benefits of a shield are limited at low levels, but you get nothing from great axe. Many many Warriors with join a party and bring their beloved great axe with and eat their meat and won't step up to the tanking role unless they have to, and usually aren't using anything more than Defender when they do. I chose to play Warrior expecting to tank since they are scares on this server. That's the point I was trying to make. While the overall benefits of a great axe are more, someone has to play the tank or the party will crumble. That includes being an effective tank, and using a shield enhances efficiency for that purpose.

A good Warrior is someone who comes equipped with both and prepared to change accordingly based on the party's needs.

[Ziero]

Re: Warrior

I don't see how a Warrior with a great axe is a better tank than a Warrior with axe/shield. The benefits of a shield are limited at low levels, but you get nothing from great axe. Many many Warriors with join a party and bring their beloved great axe with and eat their meat and won't step up to the tanking role unless they have to, and usually aren't using anything more than Defender when they do. I chose to play Warrior expecting to tank since they are scares on this server. That's the point I was trying to make. While the overall benefits of a great axe are more, someone has to play the tank or the party will crumble. That includes being an effective tank, and using a shield enhances efficiency for that purpose.

A good Warrior is someone who comes equipped with both and prepared to change accordingly based on the party's needs.

In the Dunes against Crabs and Pugs, more Damage per hit and a good -20 eva to the mob so it dies faster.

In Qufim against Crabs and Pugs, more Damage per hit and a good -20 eva to the mob so it dies faster.

In the Jungles against Mandies, more Damager per hit, a good -20 eva to mobs, slower attack speed so the Mandy had less chance to counter *while* gaining counter yourself from /mnk (there is no better War tank sub on Mandies then Mnk).

All shield gives you is what, 3 def and a slight chance to block?

And it's not like there's a massive difference between Def and DD gear pre 30. And most melees have similar stats and gear so it's not like War is some paper tiger like they become at 75. And anyone using Defender against Mandies is doing it horribly horribly wrong.

[Armando]

Re: Warrior

Actually the -Eva on Shield Break is -40.

There's just no arguing with a buff that big. Your MP saved from the increased kill speed will outweigh the damage reduction from lolSize2Shields.

Not to mention you can Dispel evasion boosts way before any job can actually Dispel.

EDIT: Also, Defender sucks in most cases. Except for cancelling Berserk.