Sam as tank...

[Kerio]

So i heard that (another rumor...jeeze i'm full of these lately) that SAM was first thought to be a DD class. However, the FFXI community has made it into one of the most powerful DD classes. In parties, these guys absolutely rock as DDs, but... was there ever a time when the equipment was just right and stats just perfect for SAM to be a tank? Also... is that still true to this day? Can a SAM tank as good as say, a PLD? Is the equipment available? Are the stats right?
Or have they changed over time due to SAM being a total DD class?
I don't remember when SAM came out, but have they changed it since then?

[Omni]

Re: Sam as tank...

NO. DD Only.

now, some ppl will come in here and say i had a great sam tank! but they'll forget to add that that sam tank was most likely in lv1-40. Where almost any melee job can tank practically.

SAM has always been DD.

and, try using search next time.

[Kuro]

Re: Sam as tank...

Samruai was origenally going to be a tank class, Though SE has no ideal of "Tank" class. SE don't see roles rerally. However with tank classes needing to sub nin or have insane defence it didn't work out. So to be kind to the samurai's they made hasso and seigan to let them have that extra defencive or offencive choice during battles.

You could tank as a sam/nin pre seigan useing Weapon skills to keep hate. And iy is a good tank pre 24 wbut after that war/nin and pld take over.

[Armando]

Re: Sam as tank...

S-E stated in an interview that SAM was never meant to tank.

[Omni]

Re: Sam as tank...

SE has said explicitly that sam was never to be a tank.

taru edit: what armando said.

[Ziero]

Re: Sam as tank...

Samruai was origenally going to be a tank class, Though SE has no ideal of "Tank" class. SE don't see roles rerally. However with tank classes needing to sub nin or have insane defence it didn't work out. So to be kind to the samurai's they made hasso and seigan to let them have that extra defencive or offencive choice during battles.
You could tank as a sam/nin pre seigan useing Weapon skills to keep hate. And iy is a good tank pre 24 wbut after that war/nin and pld take over.

....no.

First off, tanks need more then /nin or high Def. Nins tank because they can block most hits, use spells and high attack speeds to keep hate AND sub War for Voke. Plds tank because they can completely negate damage they just took by self cures while using other high hate, damage mitigating abilities and spells.

Second, Samurai weren't given Hasso and Seigan to 'let them have that extra defencive or offencive choice during battles', they got those abilities so two handed weapon users could compete with /nin by subbing /sam. As /nin's greatest strength is the ability to negate dmg while increasing attack speed, Hasso and Seigan perform similar roles.

Third, stat wise, Sams have very high defensive numbers. High Vit, high HP, high Parry and access to decent to heavy def gear. Their AF also has high Def and contains some enimity+ on it. However, these stats do not mean Sam was meant to tank, nor that they are as capable a tank as a Pld or Nin. Nor were they ever 'meant' to tank, SE just gave them stats they saw fit for that particular class.

[Susurrus]

Re: Sam as tank...

A Taru SAM tanked Shikigami weapon for me and did a damn good job.

[Pteryx]

Re: Sam as tank...

I've also had good experiences with a SAM Seigan tank, specifically in 50s and 60s XP parties. SAM/WAR works better than WAR for tanking at high levels -- it's not as self-sufficient as PLD or NIN, but it's not the MP sponge a WAR tank is.

And no, not "every melee" can tank to 40. You have your flimsy melees like THF who could tank in the Dunes tops, you have your much sturdier WARs who can tank to 40 comfortably, and you have a lot of stuff in between. Then you have SAM, which gets Seigan just about at the time when it would otherwise no longer be able to tank.

Oh, and for reference, NIN wasn't intended as a tank either. -- Pteryx

[Regulat0r]

Re: Sam as tank...

Devs need to learn how to balance things in. They said they were not ment to tank than why in the world did they give them enmity on there AF. Not much logic there.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Sam as tank...

NO. DD Only.
now, some ppl will come in here and say i had a great sam tank! but they'll forget to add that that sam tank was most likely in lv1-40. Where almost any melee job can tank practically.
SAM has always been DD.
and, try using search next time.

...

As someone who took THF/WAR to 30, I wouldn't recommend any THFs consider trying to tank past dunes, let alone past jungles. Yes, there's less differentiation at low levels, and that does make some things possible there that won't be possible later. That's irrelevant here; post-Seigan, SAM is a capable tank at higher levels, and I have seen good parties where a SAM/WAR was pressed into tanking duty. I don't think anyone would try to suggest that a SAM is a better choice for tank than PLD or NIN (though frankly they're now a better choice than WAR), although I'll note that all of my post-2H-update parties involving a SAM usually ended up with hate planted solidly on the SAM by the latter half of the battle, even when we had a PLD tank receiving TA+DE.

Seeing how for parties at levels other than 75, the appearance of tanks in the search list can mean the difference between partying or not, understanding the capabilities for jobs like SAM, WAR, BLU, or PUP to tank in those situations and level ranges where they can is very valuable. One thing to consider is the use of dual-tanking; NINs use this often before 37, unless they're so loaded up with Eva+ and AGI+ that their shadows actually last out the Utsusemi: Ichi recast. Bouncing hate between two tanks can help make effective use of time-limited damage mitigation tools, or damage-mitigation tools that may make it difficult to keep hate. (Be kind to your THFs and /THFs, though, if you have any; line up on opposite sides of the mob, please.)

[Endier]

Re: Sam as tank...

I would say SAM can tank for a short amount of time, even though they arent/werent intended to be tanks. I have tank plenty of times when I have stolen hate or when imps sleep the whole party and I am the only one awake and not disabled. I think that is why third eye and saigen is so useful in those types of moments. But as full time tanks, I think we lack unless we lessen the DD equip and replace with eva+, parrying+, and def gear. Tanking might be a MP drain if you keep getting hit hard and 3rd eye not rdy.

[Kerio]

Re: Sam as tank...

I guess my rumor was proved to be wrong, SAM was never supposed to be a tank >< However... if SE doesn't really "classify" jobs as tank or DD class, then i can see the way around that. I'll stick with SAM being one of the best DD's ever then! But this just means that at higher lvls i'm stuck with plds and ninjas as normal tanks still ; ;. We really need another GOOD tank class.

[Dymlos]

Re: Sam as tank...

What we really need is a revamp of Vit/Defense system. If that gets boosted/changed then perhaps SAM can tank... But that's all in speculation.

[Omni]

Re: Sam as tank...

but they'll forget to add that that sam tank was most likely in lv1-40. Where almost any melee job can tank practically.

Thank you.

[Balfree]

Re: Sam as tank...

Oh, and for reference, NIN wasn't intended as a tank either. -- Pteryx

Some SAM's can tank on some mobs on some levels with a certain gear set and a certain sub on a certain enemy type. Kinda like every job?