Advice with sam/rng

[Malacite]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Yeah, the only problem with SAM/RNG now is Great Katana got so powered up that it's not really worth the expense anymore.

I'd rather go /WAR or /DRG and equip an Engetsuto for birds (or hell, stick to GKT. Soboro is just crazy now)

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Lets try to put your 650-800 DMG Sidewinders in perspective:

You have the highest damage potential of any job.
You have to hold back to avoid tanking full time.
You don't have Hachiman gear for more STR.
You are fighting enemies 7-9 levels higher, which limits your pDIFF and accuracy more than most merit enemies.
You don't have your best arrows or bow yet.
You don't constantly have def. down and/or Dia III on your enemy.
You don't always have 2 x Minuet on you.

I've seen screenshots of 2k Sidewinders from SAM/RNG during merits, but you know that the SAM/RNG was using meat, getting 2 x Minuet from a BRD, and the enemy had Dia III and defense down on it. Your damage right now is awesome and no one will do more DMG from one WS unless it is DRG or RNG or DRK with Soaleater.

Without an ideal party such as PLD, THF x 2, BRD, RDM, and SAM/RNG, you will find it very hard to play to your full potential. Saving to 300TP and stacking on ATK and STR is probably not going to help since Sidewinder just isn't that accurate and still won't do 1k at Lv61.

[tdh]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Two weeks after the fact...

I just hit SAM59 last night, and I'm curious about SAM/RNG. I'm waiting until Lv.60 to give it a try so I have access to Acc Bonus II (Rng/Acc+22) to really give it a try, but I've done some basic toying with it in the meantime.

I have basically the same gear as Zempten and the OP, just no RngAcc earrings or hands/feet. Spent 350k on the Akinji Peti despite how ugly I think the thing is, and having SH & Hauby already available, I got it for the /RNG build. If I did grab the extra RngAcc+5 from the earrings, it would plant me firmly at RngAcc+63 with Acc Bonus II.

Now I've gone and played with Sidewinder during farming or just goofing, and against Too weak mobs SAMwinder (As I've taken to calling it.) is awesome. I've broken 2500 on some Lv.40~ish mobs, but once I was able to find an EP mob I have yet to break 800dmg. I've come close, but not yet, and figured this was a better barometer for what kind of damage I'll do in EXP.

Now part of my interest in SAMwinder was that my WS number with Soboro are low and all over the place. I've been making tanks, NIN & PLD alike, cry because my DPS is just through the roof, but my WS damage ranges from 100~400, usually averaging in the 180~220. As soon as I hit Lv.59 last night, I put on my Hauby, my Specs, and broke out my Daihannya and immediately busted off a 450 Jinpu. This is what I'm looking for, and I'm hoping Soboro & SAMwinder can make it happen.

Now that I've stated that, at Lv.60 with a Daihannya Yukikaze should do pretty respectable damage. Should I just sell back my Akinji Peti now, sell my Specs at Lv.60 and use my Chiv Chain, and just rain down Yukikazes for the kind of WS damage we all know SAM can do? Is it even worth to go SAMwinder at this point?

Or hell, does the DPS of the Soboro still out parse a Daihannya even with it's weak WS numbers? With no food and full time 3rd Eye/Seigan I was tanking with out Provoke and could WS 3~5 times a fight. Now I won't be able to WS 3~5 a fight with Daihannya, but any idea about which one would kick out the better numbers?

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

I parsed higher then another SAM who was using a Zanbato. I was 63 and he was around 64 or 64 (I can't remeber which it was, but I know it's around that lvl b/c I was considering buy a Zanbato). Our gear setup were practically even and both /WAR. He ate Sole Sushi and I ate Hedgehog Pie. I outprased him by about 8 to 10%. From then on I told myself I'd keep using Soboro till I get to Imps.

From my experiences, your right. Soboro's DMG on WS is pretty random at those lvls. That's why I did SAM/RNG b/c the WS numbers were too random, but with Sidewinder they became alot more consistant. However, for some reason SAM/WAR's Soboro numbers are pretty consistant @ 63/64. I'm always doing 400-500 per WS and 200-300 are rare and 600-700 uncommon. I'm lvl 66 now and haven't had any further experiences.

Oh and also I enjoy doing like 3 or 4 WS with a Meditate on SAM with soboro ^ ^ I think I'm spoiled by the fast TP gain and I can't drop it until Amnesia becomes a nagging friend.

[Malacite]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

I parsed higher then another SAM who was using a Zanbato. I was 63 and he was around 64 or 64 (I can't remeber which it was, but I know it's around that lvl b/c I was considering buy a Zanbato). Our gear setup were practically even and both /WAR. He ate Sole Sushi and I ate Hedgehog Pie. I outprased him by about 8 to 10%. From then on I told myself I'd keep using Soboro till I get to Imps.

From my experiences, your right. Soboro's DMG on WS is pretty random at those lvls. That's why I did SAM/RNG b/c the WS numbers were too random, but with Sidewinder they became alot more consistant. However, for some reason SAM/WAR's Soboro numbers are pretty consistant @ 63/64. I'm always doing 400-500 per WS and 200-300 are rare and 600-700 uncommon. I'm lvl 66 now and haven't had any further experiences.

Oh and also I enjoy doing like 3 or 4 WS with a Meditate on SAM with soboro ^ ^ I think I'm spoiled by the fast TP gain and I can't drop it until Amnesia becomes a nagging friend.

SAM/WAR with Soboro is just fine from 50+, especially once you get Yuki Gekko and Kasha. Just eat meat and go nuts spamming WS.

[tdh]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

I parsed higher then another SAM who was using a Zanbato. I was 63 and he was around 64 or 64 (I can't remeber which it was, but I know it's around that lvl b/c I was considering buy a Zanbato). Our gear setup were practically even and both /WAR. He ate Sole Sushi and I ate Hedgehog Pie. I outprased him by about 8 to 10%. From then on I told myself I'd keep using Soboro till I get to Imps.

Outta curiosity, why switch out at Imps? With Amnesia up, seems like this would be the perfect time to use the Soboro, and take advantage of Demon Killer.

From my experiences, your right. Soboro's DMG on WS is pretty random at those lvls. That's why I did SAM/RNG b/c the WS numbers were too random, but with Sidewinder they became alot more consistant. However, for some reason SAM/WAR's Soboro numbers are pretty consistant @ 63/64. I'm always doing 400-500 per WS and 200-300 are rare and 600-700 uncommon. I'm lvl 66 now and haven't had any further experiences.

I guess I'll stick with it, and try SAMwinder a few times before I sell that Akinji Peti. Grab those RngAcc earrings to round out the numbers so I'm good to go on Barrage and SAMwinder. I just remember some BIG Yukikazes when I was leveling other jobs in that range, and I want those kinds of WS numbers. I'm geared pretty mean like and a pretty damn good STR build for WS (If I do say so myself.) and the Soboro just doesn't seem to shine where I was expecting to shine. Yeah I tank the entire fight, but I'm also fighting Colibri so that's not the greatest reference point.

Oh and also I enjoy doing like 3 or 4 WS with a Meditate on SAM with soboro ^ ^ I think I'm spoiled by the fast TP gain and I can't drop it until Amnesia becomes a nagging friend.

Hell, I can drop 3 and not use Meditate. I've almost given up on it due to hate and actually pissing off tanks. I had a WHM tell me last night, "You can't have Haste any more." Also sometimes it seemed like a waste of Meditate because I'd pop a Jinpu or a Koki and before I can blink I already have 80% TP. I'm gonna have a hard time believing the TP build once I have Store TP merits and Hachiman gear.

Now coming from DRK, I had to update one or two weapons every few levels usually. Now I'm SAM, I've had my Soboro since Lv.50 and I almost feel lazy for not updating the weapon. haha I bought a Daihannya and thought maybe I'd try the Zanbato +1 (Really wanna keep that DLY:450. That's the only reason for +1.), but it's "Soboro; all the time" I guess I'll go that route. I'll pick up a few other Great Katana's for testing though.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Imps have amnesia. It'll prevent you from WSing. WSing at 200% or 300% doesn't justify WSing at 100% 2 times(200%) or 3 times(300%). Regardless of how low your WS number is, it is still a factor in your overall DMG. If your unable to WS then you lose chunks of DMG. I'd assume it'll be better hitting for 100+ and fire off WS at the 100% TP mark then hitting for 70-80 and firing off WS at the 200% or 300% TP mark.

I don't think Demon Killer has any effect on your DMG. As far as I know, all it does is intimidate the mob. However, I'm 66 and haven't fought imps yet so I haven't really parsed Soboro vs other GKs. When I parse, my WS total DMG are only a few thousand away from my meele total DMG (around 10k difference). That's why I said I might have to swap out when we get to imps, but I have no personal experience with it yet.

Soboro shines easily when you get it at 50, but as you lvl up it seems less and less impressive but I'm still surprised by how it parses against others up to 66. I concentrate more on my DOT and I'm satisfied with hitting the mob from 70-80 two or three times occassionally instead of the 110-120 from a Zanbato. From personaly experience the highest number I've hit with 300% TP and Hasso and Berserk was about 700-800 DMG on an IT crawler in Halvung. 700-800DMG for 300% TP when I can do 400-500 DMG for just 100% TP doesn't seem all that great to me,which is why I assumed Imps would be bad for soboro. In terms of a Zanbato, I've done anywhere from 400-700 consistantly and a rare 1k. This still doesn't make me think Soboro doesn't measure up with a range of 400-500 at 100% and gaining TP much faster then a Zanbato.I always believe that if your not allowed to eat meat (base 70-80% accuracy) then soboro won't shine enough for my personal taste.

When I say 3 to 4 times, I mean in the time frame of a SC. It's not hard at all to throw 3 WS on a mob without Meditate. Had this one PT where I made Darkness three times and the Magma Crawler was dead in about 30 seconds. Yay for PLD's Cover ^ ^

IMO, you'll do your best with a PLD tank. Meditate is basically a free provoke for a SAM that fires off WS at 100% all the time. Since Cover is on the same recast time as Meditate your basically safe while spamming WS with Meditate and mobs shouldn't last longer then that otherwise spamming your WS will appear like a MP sponge. Also don't use Colibris as a judge on your future experiences. DD PLD (which will never happen on colibris at these lvls ) does much better then a DD NIN, not b/c they do better damage then a NIN, but they have more tools to keep you (the SAM) alive.

Oh and as far as Mediate goes, I'm hitting my WS macro when I'm at about 60% TP. The reason for this is b/c if I hit 3 times I can fire off my WS before the 20% TP from Meditate comes in. I just don't like see 100% TP b/c I want the next hits/meditate tick to count towards my next WS.

[tdh]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

My comment about Demon Killer was for when we have hate with a Soboro and nobody can Provoke. 3rd Eye/Seigan, and then Demon Killer should help keep you from getting completely face humped. lol

Personally, I hate Imps with a passion that's difficult to describe, but all the Sheep say they're great EXP. Lv.67 at a camp that's really Lv.70+ and we get away with it because they have like 25 HP. Part of my hatred for Imps comes from being a DRK though; if I can't use Abs-TP I'm basically useless.

During the 50's I've partied with a handful of other SAMs, and so far I've been the only one with a Soboro. One SAM I partied with was geared almost identical to me, and was doing about 130dmg a swing while I was doing 50~90 a pop (Berserk, etc. Now if a triple procs at the low end of damage from the Soboro I still out do him that round. Now I don't have access to a parser (PS2 & PS3 player), but on some occasions he would actually pull hate off me. Mainly due to his WS damage being just about double what mine were at times. I saw a few 500dmg Jinpus from him when I was topping out at about 400 on a rare occasion.

As much as I love how quick Colibri die, I'm almost excited for Puks and Crawlers just so I a tank has a chance to tank me. Thus far NIN & PLDs have had no luck at all tanking me. I've almost forgotten what Hasso was.

[Malacite]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

SAM are just awesome for fighting imps. Even with amnesia, the sheer DoT from Soboro kicks their ass. Not to mention you can macro in your Myochin Kabuto to extend Warding Circle's length to 1:30.

[tdh]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Has anybody tested out the Platinum Grip (NQ or HQ) with the Soboro yet? Would the crazy proc rate on the Soboro make that Stun fire off more than just a few times? I imagine it would be even worse for our hate generation, but would it help is stretch out 3rd Eye out?

[Malacite]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

I'd rather use the claymore personally. With my merits that'd give me +7% crit rate, which is pretty evil.

[tdh]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

I'd rather use the claymore personally. With my merits that'd give me +7% crit rate, which is pretty evil.

I have just about all of them. With Subduer I often use Claymore (4/4 Merits + 6 +3 = 13%), but with the 2handed adjustment I've been noticing far more Crits. Perhaps it's just me, I dunno. So other times I go with Axe Grip for a pure STR build. (SAM does have access to more STR items than DRK does, so it requires more pieces to build that STR+50 plus build.)

[raidenn]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Just stick with /war or /thf for awhile. /rng is just for fun really. Not useful in a XP party. Save yourself some gil, pack up some STR and improve your GKT weaponskills instead of your Archery because you will definitely miss a lot on your Sidewinders even on the most easiest mobs and its going to slow your party's progress.

Platinum grip on Soboro is just as it is with a normal GKT. The stun effect doesnt hit very often.

[CS_911]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

i did sam/rng for the longest time, i was also in static pt with it, since i didnt trust other people, when it came to puks i basically almost soloed them and full time tanked them, so every ones job was to help heal and take care of the minor details, i was doing ws dmg from any where between 500- to over 1k, didnt use soboro and i technacally was ranger wanna be since i was no wear near the mob, had to do this since i took hate all the time, have some space between me and mob, but once i did 2430 ws dmg on an I.T mob, a dharmel, and i wont ever for get that cause it was the last ws and the only ws i could land on that danm thing, i think it was luck, but every one saw that and went crazzy, i think it was cause he used besserk or something. The job was fun but expansive, and as fun as it was it also came with its problems, at times i was awsome and at times i sucked, and a sam/rng b.f.f is a brd, but then againg brds are every ones b.f.f.