Hagun or Shinsoku?

[Susurrus]

Hagun seems to be popular, but why is:

DMG: 75 Delay: 450 TP Bonus

preferred over:

DMG: 80 Delay: 450 STR +5 AGI +1 INT -1
Additional Effect: TP Drain


?

To me, the 2nd seems much better.

And also, I am currently 55 and use a Soboro, how long should I stick with it?

[Tekumel]

Re: Hagun or Shinsoku?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/TP_Bonus

TP Bonus (found on weapons such as the Martial Knife, Martial Scythe, Martial Anelace, etc. along with the Shamo and Hagun) allows a weaponskill to use 100% additional TP from what you have when the skill is actually used.

So...100% TP = effects/damage of 200%. For the WS whore that is Samurai...that's damn handy. I think I might have to make that call as well...that's a tough choice.

[raidenn]

Re: Hagun or Shinsoku?

Hagun is pretty much the one if the WS are affected by how much TP you have.

[Malacite]

Re: Hagun or Shinsoku?

Soboro FTW

[Amele]

Re: Hagun or Shinsoku?

adding alot of extra information and complexity, but since there's alot of choice at 70+ now in weapons, it's probably justified here: (weapon names in bold, discussion of each weapon below).
pre 66 - pretty much soboro sukehiro > all * (see footnote on soboro)
66-72 - now things get a bit complicated so we'll discuss it by sub and role.

• Sam/thf: Pretty much should get a good damage weapon. you're doing this for the high hit SA Gekko right? well. a 40 damage gkt isn't going to get you there, sorry. use an onikiri, zanbato(+1), kazaridachi(+1), or messhikirimaru
• Sam/war: bit of a choice here. Gekko is gonna suck with a soboro, but you'll be doing twice as many - if you're not Skillchaining or the blm is bursting it dead anyway, then soboro is best. otherwise consider one of the above 6 swords.
• Sam/rng: Style choice: High Damage bow + soboro, or speed bow + one of the above six weapons. good high damage bows are: war bow +1(longbow) rapid bow+1(shortbow) eventually you'll want to go to a Shigeto Bow(+1)

in addition to the listed weapons, the following EX weapons should also be considered: kumokirimaru, Kamewari, hotarumaru, Imperial bow.

at 72 the shinsoku and hagun are both available. Hagun is generally accepted to be better than shinsoku (I can run the actual weaponskill formula for yuki/gekko/kasha if necessary in a followup post). - however.. what isn't as clear is if hagun > soboro: based on some tests I've witnessed involving lots of parsing (admittedly at 75) soboro and hagun have similar overall damage (ws+dot) with hagun significantly better per hit, especially per ws. for sam/war and sam/thf hagun is generally accepted as the gkt to use from here going forward. (although for sam/war it's basically a wash if you aren't Skillchaining).
at 75 you will generally also carry a gkt used specifically for 300TP ws: I list them below, more or less in alphabetical order:
butachi(+1), kamewari(ex), kumokirimaru(ex), onimaru, shinsoku, ushikirimaru(ex).

excluded amanomurakumo and futsuno mitama from discussion for reasons that should be apparent.
---
(each sword discussed above)
butachi(+1): good damage, good dot, highest straight damage non-ex gkt.
hagun: martial bonus is very very strong- increases multiplier by a further .5 (33% increase in damage multiplier) for gekko/kasha/yuki
hotarumaru: best dps rating outside of relic. potential for very strong elemental ws's if you use them regularly (I haven't had a chance to test the bonus myself)
kamewari: free 5 acc. great crit bonus vs. weapons/pots/etc. ideal for sky and moon camps. not so hot in AU.
kazaridachi(+1): good old fashioned straight damage in the sub 70 range.
kumokirimaru: 80+ damage gkt (top 'tier'), zanshin bonus. +crit. (sick +crit vs. vermin: great for waomora/crawler etc.)
messhikirimaru: kazaridachi+arcana killer enchantment.
onikiri: good vs. demon, decent damage for <LV70 gkt.
onimaru: latent damage is highest of the available gkts, ex or otherwise. active on WS and <100tp. also includes 18 attack and 5 accuracy.
soboro sukehiro: basically a ridill you can use hasso with: you shouldn't need me to tell you how good ridill is.
shinsoku: 80 damage, 5 str. best +str on a gkt in the game. doesn't do as much on ws as hagun will until the 250+ TP range; except against very high def mobs.
ushikirimaru: highest damage ex gkt that has actually dropped. 3rd highest damage gkt in the game (counting relic as one gkt and excluding latents).
zanbato(+1): see comment about kazaridachi. slightly easier to make a 6 hit TP setup with.

[Malacite]

Re: Hagun or Shinsoku?

Sry, my last post was... shall we say, less than serious.


However, two good SAM buds of mine (both 75 with merits) swear by the Soboro for /WAR and /RNG. They do not disavow Hagun's power, but they feel Soboro still beats it for the shear multitude of WS, and potential Self-Light SC without Meditate (though it's much easier with it).


And yes, you are 100% correct about Soboro and /THF (which should be obvious to any SAM) ; you do NOT use it when subbing THF. Ever (unless you're soloing, then who really cares >.>)

I'd have to disagree on some of those +1's though, especially the Zanbato. Unless money is no object for you and you're absolutely fanatical about your SAM, the NQ is just fine.


Example: I bought my Zanbato for 10k. The going rate for the +1 is 600k for 1 more damage, and slightly less delay. Not worth it.

[Amele]

Re: Hagun or Shinsoku?

I'd have to disagree on some of those +1's though, especially the Zanbato. Unless money is no object for you and you're absolutely fanatical about your SAM, the NQ is just fine.

oh definitely. in case it was unclear, anytime I used (+1) in parenthesis it was only to indicate that there was a +1 available, if the buyer wished (although with butachi+1 it's probably not as optional, since the big draw of butachi(+1) is that it's the highest DMG you can actually 'buy' on the AH) - when I considered the +1 mandatory I simply listed it. ex ("War Bow+1")

as for soboro and hagun for sam/war : again, they basically parse the same (excluding any incidental damage from skillchain effect or bursting, which are hard to impossible to empirically compare since they are dependent on so much more than just your particular build) so I would never ask a sam who was using soboro why they weren't using hagun *unless* we're in a situation where the sam isn't supposed to be meleeing outside of ws.