Samurai Update

[Raydeus]

Re: Samurai Update

Well, you're half right. Pre-65, blms are great all around. However, due to the new tp-burn update, 65-75 blms are no longer needed for xp parties, due to the fact that people can just TP-burn for much faster xp.

I don't play to get the most xp/hour but because I enjoy being in a party killing stuff (which usually gives me some nice xp), so I party with BLMs a lot, kupo.

But I guess I'm one of the minority, huh?


PS> Depending on the party I get from 6k-12k an hour in regular parties, so I don't see much of a difference besides a few k/hr with burn parties anyway.

[Raitox]

Re: Samurai Update

Awesome buffs yay. But it just begs the question..

SAM or BLU? My second favorite job is almost winning me over, and yet if I do change to SAM I'd be letting down my friend who I'm leveling BLU with.. orz

[Lmnop]

Re: Samurai Update

Yea, ok I couldn't resist. I gotta post more.

Tanking applications:

Sam/war may very well be able to tank, but I don't think that's S-E's aim. I truely believe their #1 incentive was to give 2 handers a nin-substitute, as well as busting the monopoly of WARs subbing Nin. Instead of delving into practical sam/war tanking, I'm going to look at war/sam:

A War/Sam could basically spam third eye every 30 and Seigan every 60 just for JA effects (just like our War/mnk days). What I would try to do (and plan on trying to do) is use Hasso whenever Third Eye goes down. Just another JA and get one good Great Axe Swing in before I put up another Seigan + Third Eye. Additionally, I'd always use Hasso before WS (Duh).

A War/sam could never hope to avoid every attack, and thus, defensive equipment would be required. This would encourage good tanks with 2 sets of gear, but would hopefully be more cyclic than war/nin tanking (war/nin gets to be a bit random, and I find myself swapping equip sets like 3 times in 5 seconds because I'm not sure which fits the ever-changing situation best). Damage avoidance should still be high enough to warrant WAR tanking (probably the equivalent of having 2 people on full-time hate-free flash duty). In fact, the combo will probably avoid more hits than a War/nin w/out support. That is to say, with just a slowed mob, no stuns or flashes, no elegy + haste combos, just 6 shadows. It's basically a moot gain, but JAs take much less time than casting spells, so /sam will increase have that damage-advantage during tanking.

As Pure DD, War/sam will be right there with the Drk/Sams.

Nin/sam with Great Katana would probably make a nice soloer, even with the increased recast times. Don't use the stance when casting when possible. If you have shadows, you don't need Seigan.

Oh yea, I think the reason they gave so much to SAM is in part because they noticed what I've been complaining about -- SAMs are losing their individuality. "Masters of TP" means nothing when every job and their sister gets tp almost as fast. As of now, I believe Warriors technically have the slowest tp-gain rate (barring multi-hit weapons) of any melee. Dark Knights who play their Abs-TP smart can potentially get more tp out of that ability than Meditate gives. Blue mages can self-skillchain every 2 minutes to a SAM's 2 hours. and they even get to tack on their own nifty MB. While many BLUs say it's not too impressive, it sure beats Sam/blm. Maybe power-wise it's ok but that's not the point.

@exp/hour: getting the best exp/hour isn't what this game is all about. But you cannot say "PLD are an ok job, just because they can't get the highest exp/hour doesn't make them second rate"... guess what, that would make them second rate. Jobs are supposed to be balanced. Just because 1/100 don't mind getting half the exp doesn't mean the creators shouldn't strive to make it so 80/100 would like to invite them. Any time there's a "best way," the game is broken. This is why we make BLMs more party-friendly, this is why we break /nin monopolies, this is why we even hurt the ones we love (I'm looking at you, Rangers).

[Nogren]

Re: Samurai Update

Its good to be a SAM.

[Celeal]

Re: Samurai Update

How about post update level 60 WAR/SAM with Great Axe for Break WS (like Shield Break, Armor Break, etc) and also part of Skillchain (like Raging Rush) with Mediate, as a DD + Debuffer? I think with Double Attack, Zanshin, Store TP, Hasso, WAR/SAM's speed of TP gain maybe able to pull this off in certain PT setup.

For lvl 60 SAM main, it is hard to give up SATA + Tachi: Yukikaze (to end SC and plant hate). Maybe pre-60 or end game merit burn party is great for SAM/WAR.

[Karinya]

Re: Samurai Update

Actually, that very setup was popular in the early days of RoZ, before viking axes, genkai 5 and the rise of war/nin. Full Break > Meditate > Raging Rush. In fact, it probably is still good in the 60-73 range, but few people want to level another sub that they'll end up not using after 74 because Utsu:Ni is so godly.

Since then, 2h weapons have gained more TP per hit, and with the new update, WAR/SAM will also gain Zanshin and Hasso. Enough to challenge Utsusemi's stranglehold on all post-74 gameplay? Maybe.

[Celeal]

Re: Samurai Update

Today many party build party assuming war/nin, even in the 50 ~ 60 levels. Hopefully the party setup in future will work for /sam...

Last night I tried war/mnk again (at level 59) .. and end up died.

An hour ago, I made my new record: lvl 60 war/thf ate dirt within the 1st 30 seconds of the 1st battle and down-leveled. For me right now any subjob but /nin is cursed .... /cry

[Lmnop]

Re: Samurai Update

actually, many parties build with war/nin as early as 24...

I've tried War/sam before. The problem is, meditate is just "60 tp every 3 minutes." Not "an extra WS every fight." I tried this in the early 60s, before Full break, but I'd occasionally pop an armor break or a shield break, but not consistently. I did, however, keep tp with a SAM main and make fragmentations with him.

[Vyuru]

Re: Samurai Update

Full Break > Meditate > Raging Rush.

Why don't more warriors skillup their marksmanship and use bolts to build tp? Their marksmanship skill is what, C+? Bolts give 12 tp/hit, and I can fit in 3 of them while delaying my Gaxe only slightly, so assuming all hit, there is a potential of 48 tp/swing of my Gaxe.

Now my warrior is only level 39, and my marksmanship skill kinda sucks, but I have seen other warriors do it and I wonder why more don't.

I'm interested in seeing what this can do for war/sam tanking, but I feel that I may still stick with war/mnk for the all purpose DD/tank role, Seigan is nice, but it seems it's real use is limited to Third Eye, which only affects one hit. It sounds like Hasso will be better than Focus, but I think that Dodge + boost + counter will be a better hate gaining/evasion tool than Third Eye + Seigan.

I think it really depends on how much hate is gained from Seigan and Hasso, if it's equivilant hate to say, Souleater or Warcry, you're tanking for sure, and a rice ball eating samurai might make a very good tank, especially if you wear the gear that enhances the effects of rice balls.

Man, I want Roshi Jinpachi, rice balls look like awesome food.

[Vyuru]

Re: Samurai Update

actually, many parties build with war/nin as early as 24...

I don't get that, for a non tanking warrior I would think the best sub would be dragoon for an attack bonus and jump, no other sub really offers anything as nice. War/nin at that level was just kinda meh for me when I tried it.

[Celeal]

Re: Samurai Update

Why don't more warriors skillup their marksmanship and use bolts to build tp? Their marksmanship skill is what, C+? Bolts give 12 tp/hit, and I can fit in 3 of them while delaying my Gaxe only slightly, so assuming all hit, there is a potential of 48 tp/swing of my Gaxe.
...
Man, I want Roshi Jinpachi, rice balls look like awesome food.

Besides speed of TP gain, I guess many DD would also focus on DoT too. I mean TP gain of range weapon is great, but how much damage per shot for lvl 50+ WAR? How much range acc+ and range atk+ are needed?

For G.Axe Breaks WS series, some exp. mobs special buff can override the effects of Break WS.

For example, Carb's Scissor Guard would overwrite Armor Break; Beetles evasion boost would overwrite Shield Break.

For Acid Bolt defense down effect, does it overwrites buff like Cocoon or Scissor Guard? Or it just stack with each other (like stack with Defender and Berserk, which sort of cancel out each other)?

[Lmnop]

Re: Samurai Update

Why don't more warriors skillup their marksmanship and use bolts to build tp? Their marksmanship skill is what, C+? Bolts give 12 tp/hit, and I can fit in 3 of them while delaying my Gaxe only slightly, so assuming all hit, there is a potential of 48 tp/swing of my Gaxe.
Now my warrior is only level 39, and my marksmanship skill kinda sucks, but I have seen other warriors do it and I wonder why more don't.
I'm interested in seeing what this can do for war/sam tanking, but I feel that I may still stick with war/mnk for the all purpose DD/tank role, Seigan is nice, but it seems it's real use is limited to Third Eye, which only affects one hit. It sounds like Hasso will be better than Focus, but I think that Dodge + boost + counter will be a better hate gaining/evasion tool than Third Eye + Seigan.
I think it really depends on how much hate is gained from Seigan and Hasso, if it's equivilant hate to say, Souleater or Warcry, you're tanking for sure, and a rice ball eating samurai might make a very good tank, especially if you wear the gear that enhances the effects of rice balls.
Man, I want Roshi Jinpachi, rice balls look like awesome food.

It lowers your melee delay significantly... at the very least, the amount of time you spend with your xbow out (which is roughly 2-4 seconds? that x3 and you're looking at a Greataxe swing every 12ish seconds instead of 8.4). Someone else (and I obviously don't mean Armando) would know. That's not the real problem, though.

As Celeal said, DoT is still very important.

Warrior is D rank Marksmanship. Thief is C+. Even Thief misses bolts WAYYYY too much for comfort 40+.

Third Eye is being adjusted so every time someone takes a swing, it has a chance of staying in effect. The chance that you'll lose the effect is based off of how long ago you activated Third Eye, which makes it a decaying ability.

War/nin 24 is retarded. You are right. However, this is the truth about how most parties think. /sarcasm 2-4 War/nin at any level must automatically mean super exp. /sarcasm off

@Celeal: yes, Break WSs can be overridden. It was pretty terrible on S-E's part to make all the basic 3 breaks rank 1 debuffs. I'm not sure, but I think Full Break may be rank 2. What this means (according to Apple Pie some years ago) is that any rank 1 buff will override it. For instance, Cocoon or Metallic Body or that Beetle Evasion Buff. However, rank 1 debuffs will also overwrite these buffs. It's basically whichever effect is more recent wins. As such, Acid Bolts overwrite Cocoon. I served as the party's Dispeller on my THF in CN. You can test this by waiting for a Crawler to use Cocoon, then shooting it with an acid bolt. Then, have a Rdm cast Dispel. You'll see the message "has no effect." This is because the acid bolt dispelled and had full effect.

It is worthy of note that while Shield Break's effect will wear off as soon as the beetle uses the evasion boost move, that if each melee in a 3 melee party lands 1 extra attack because of the evasion boost, you've already potentially outdamaged Sturmwind and thus, anything that Dual Axes could offer.

[Vyuru]

Re: Samurai Update

For G.Axe Breaks WS series, some exp. mobs special buff can override the effects of Break WS.

Not only that, but I thought each Break WS had a certain element associated with it and they won't work on mobs of the same element. For example I don't think Full Break works on mobs that drop water crystals, I could be wrong though, most of my warrior knowledge is second hand from the pro warriors in my LS.

For Acid Bolt defense down effect, does it overwrites buff like Cocoon or Scissor Guard?

I think it is rank 1 as well, I think Cocoon or Scissor Guard will overwrite the def down from Acid Bolts. Also, from what I have seen, an Acid Bolt's def down does not work with the def down that my jump gives when I use Spirit Surge + Jump. I don't think that Armor break stacks with Acid Bolt's Def down, but the Dia spells seem to stack with them all.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Samurai Update

Well, you're half right. Pre-65, blms are great all around. However, due to the new tp-burn fad, 65-75 blms are no longer needed for xp parties, due to the fact that people can just TP-burn for much faster xp.

Fixed.

But yeah, ToA has been pretty bad for BLM all around.

[Karinya]

Re: Samurai Update

Don't worry, everyone still lines up to kiss BLM's ass for Dynamis, Limbus, all HNMs, some Assaults, a bunch of missions, and most BCNMs and ENMs. They're actually *stronger* in exp than they were before, but it's slightly overshadowed by the fact that some other jobs have gained even more from TAU easymode mobs. Cry me a river.

Oh, and they still have the easiest Maat fight in the game, that you can win at level 66 and playing with one hand tied behind your back.